Aside from SAP, who are some of the other erp market leaders?

Another option would be to protect their existing systems, do not replace them with something new, and use an Enterprise Add-On to get the incremental requirements that are forcing their consideration of suicide. Margaret stated it best: "We are now struggling with (and have been since '06) the plant implementation. "

Only 7% of ERP implementations are successful (on time, on budget) and the customers only receive 63% of the expected benefit. While some of that may be the smoke and mirrors that Ray mentioned it is really the underlying complexity of those applications, the amount of change (either modification or business alteration) and the disruption is guarantees for business. Replacing an existing system is akin to replacing the engine of your car while it is running down the highway at 75 MPH.

If all the company needs is better visibility, increased accuracy or productivity there is no reason to go to the trouble and incur the cost and risk. The financials of the company are likely "okay" and it is often the operations of the business that are lacking the necessary process, data or technology to keep pace with business requirements: compliance, regulation, competition, customer demand patterns, etc.

Note to Michael,

You posted an answer on another question directly below where I posted the following that contains the statistics and sources of my data. Study away.....

There are alternatives to suicide...take a look at these statistics on ERP project cost, timeframe and performance. Enterprise Add-On can meet the business objectives without ripping and replacing what you currently have...less disruption, cost and risk to your systems, operation and customers.

Avg. Cost to Implement*
• Tier 2: $3.46 million
• SAP: $16.8 million
• Oracle: $12.6 million
• Microsoft: $2.6 million

Avg. Time to Implement*
• Tier 2: 17.8 months
• Microsoft: 18 months
• Oracle: 18.6 months
• SAP: 20 months

Project Performance
• ERP projects that take longer than expected: 93 percent***
• ERP projects that exceed original budget expectations: 59 percent***
• Tier 2: Percentage of expected value achieved 68.6% *
• ERP project delays caused by lack of business-to-business planning and integration could cost manufacturers more than $1M/month**
• 85 per cent of companies surveyed had experienced delays in roll-outs as a result of B2B integration issues (which can cost over $45,000/day)**

And here are the sources that tie to the astericks:

*In ERP software comparison, SAP scores highest, but Tier 2 competitive
Courtney Bjorlin, News Editor at SearchSAP.com
March 3rd, 2009
http://searchsap.techtarget.com/news/article/0,289142,sid21_gci1349659,00.html#

**ERP project delays cost manufacturers $1M a month
Published by GXS
September 28th, 2009
http://www.marketwire.com/press-release/Gxs-1047274.html

***2008 ERP Report
Panorama Consulting Group: Eric Kimberling
January 7th, 2009
http://www.panorama-consulting.com/whitepapers.html
http://it.toolbox.com/blogs/erp-roi/panorama-issues-2008-erp-report-29172

Hi Kyle-

Aside from the knee-jerk package recommendations you have received a tremendous amount of excellent advice.

When considering an ERP implementation it is probably not a bad idea to liken it to a heart/lung transplant. You are literally swapping out the very life-giving operation of your company for a new one.

My advice is to completely ignore at this point anything a sales rep from any of the ERP vendors have to say; you aren't ready to speak with them yet. Next, I would advise you to hire an outside consultant who has a primary focus on your industry and can provide multiple references. Make sure the consultant you select6 has zero ties to any of the ERP vendors. When it comes to consultants I am not a big fan of the large "we-have-expertise-in-every-industry" consulting firms, either.

All projects like the one you are considering are fraught with risk. However, the more time you take up front in understanding not only where you want to be, but also where you are now the better off you will be. Far too many companies make the leap to a new ERP without ever really understanding why what they have at present doesn't work. If you can get a firm grasp on that then you will be able to have a baseline from where to start.

I, like many of my fellow respondants, could go on and on - but I will stop here. I hope you find my words to be of use.

Good luck!

Martin Stockdale

Note to Steve:

Thanks for the references. Whenever I see stats I also want to know the source.

Regarding the Panorama studies and stats - they are a solid organization and expert in their field.

However, they are hardly a neutral or unbiased organization and therefore I take their numbers with a grain of salt. I blogged about their 2010 study here:

http://www.zdnet.com/blog/projectfailures/erp-failure-new-research-and-statis...

Their numbers are certainly useful indicators and suggest worthwhile patterns to examine, but I would be careful about quoting them as gospel.

Per your follow-up question, it would be presumptuous to recommend an alternative solution without knowing a great deal more about the enterprise's functionality needs and wants and the direction the business is persuing - in the near term and extending into the future.

In order to determine the best fit, the team must employ an unbiased approach: Utilize outside assistance as required to help thinking "outside the box" and to overcome internal political and blinkered obstacles; Ensure that this help is not partnered with a proposed solution; and PLEASE heed the preparatory steps I outlined 10 or so days ago.

Some questions and observations from me; a user who has been part of selection, and project management teams that have reviewed business processes and implemented solutions. Ihave worked within the Supply Chain arena for all of my civilian working life.

Why does the Company feel that it needs an "ERP" system?

Much of the software grew out of Business 400 during the 1980's. The general principles are based around MRP II The Standard System Landvater & Gray. Before you proceed any frther, It is worth a read, along with the latest version of the Oliver Wight World Class measures.

Each ERP sortware offering has its own quirks, and is more or less suited to certain industries.

Oracle, INFOR, SAP, Microsoft, QAD (MFG Pro), MRP123.net

All aside from QAD and MRP123.net own multiple offerings and have a different philosophy in terms of their selling process.

In very general terms, the reporting functionality supplied out of the box with any of these is not good. So you will be looking for a good data extraction and reporting tool - TM1, COGNOS, Crystal Reports etc.

None of the packages will offer your Supply Chain Management and staff functional scheduling software. Nor will the demand planning software that comes out of the box be remarkable.

If you need CRM software, then again, you will be looking elsewhere.

Again, in very general terms, most ERP systems provide excellent transaction engines, but won't necessarily provide cheap bar coding to make transacting easier.

So, in my opinion, you really do need to persuade your team to review the business processes, and to prioritise those where automation will give benefits. That should then lead you down the path of deciding whether a full blown ERP system is what you want, or if software for the more specialist areas would be more suitable.

There is alot of scaremongering about cost and project timescales. Is your project being sponsored from the very top of your organisation? Is the leader of the project going to have a good overview? Is it a finance led accounting project, that might have some spins offs elsewhere in the business? Clear internal deliverables are important. Unrealistic timescales will simply add extra cost.

Dear Kyle,

I can give you two options that I already worked with, and the results was excelent;Protheus is ERP from TOTVS is a medium to large solution and Oracle eBusiness that is direct competitor os SAP. Today my company use SAP R/3, and I have to tell you that SAP is a diferent universo from any other ERP solution. Anyway if you need more information about this two options justa contact me. And don´t forget.

To understand what the next ten years will bring for your company, and
what impact those changes will have, look at the last ten years and double
that rate of change. Technology will provide information to the knowledge
worker at any time on any device.

Although InsideView partners with NetSuite and Microsoft primarily around their CRM applications, I've had some exposure to their ERP applications as well. Both NetSuite and Microsoft are considered market leaders by analysts. And if you are an SMB company, then I would venture to say that NetSuite is the better fit.

Who the market leaders are will depend on what market you are in (SOHO, SMB, Enterprise). If you're in the SOHO or SMB markets a great resource for finding the best system for your company is http://findaccountingsoftware.com

There's a good whitepaper from Forrester that explains the SMB market and vendors here: www.oracle.com/us/corporate/analystreports/industries/059786.pdf

I agree with Keith that everything depends on your own requirements. Assuming that you're looking for a mid-market to enterprise solution, top players (other than SAP) include Aplicor, Epicor, Exact, IFS, Infor, Lawson, Microsoft, Dynamics, NetSuite, Oracle, Plex, QAD, Sage, Syspro and the list goes. Many of these vendors have multiple product options.

You can review more information at Focus' ERP research center (http://www.focus.com/product/erp/), including our ERP mid-market product comparison guide (http://www.focus.com/research/comparison-guides/erp/comparison-guide-midmarke...).

Almost any ERP suite will include basic modules such as finance or CRM. The trick is to match the software vendor's area of specialization to your particular needs. For example, some vendors focus on specific vertical industries.

When evaluating ERP vendors be sure to look at consulting companies with expertise in your particular area. Finding a consultant who already knows your business domain can save lots of time, money, and hassle while implementing the system.

These days, it's also worth considering on-demand ERP systems from vendors such as NetSuite and SAP (with its Business byDesign offering). Although still relatively a new concept, these systems are robust and can save infrastructure deployment and labor costs.

This is not an easy question to answer because there are so many variables. The first question I would ask is what is your budget? A tier 1 ERP implementation will be upwards of $2M. Are you using an ERP system now? If not, what are you using? Going from spreadsheets and QuickBooks to a tier 1 ERP is a big leap. I would recommend a tier 2 ERP first and then migrate later. Other considerations would be your revenue, growth plans, the product or service you provide and how you sell your product and service. Who is driving the ERP implementation? If it is Finance make sure they understand what Manufacturing requires. In my experience Finance will make an ERP decision based on what they need and don't consider what Manufacturing needs. Don’t forget to get as much training as possible before the implementation. You won’t be able to setup the ERP if you don’t know its capabilities. Make sure you spend time selecting your implementation partner who will determine the success your ERP implementation. You will need ongoing support. Your ERP vendor should have a credible user group. Is your in-house IT team staffed to support the ERP hardware and software? As soon as you go live you need to be working on enhancements, change requests and help tickets including user training and support.

Kyle,

This is a very open ended question. There are systems and suppliers that are appropriate for particular sectors, geographic reach, internal client resources etc. SAP and Oracle based systems are appropriate for businesses that are truly global, with business units in many territories and looking for local and multilingual support in global territories and who have large budgets to spend on administration. It is important to be aware that a poorly excuted selection and implementation can break a business, draining it of cash flow and information for considerable periods of time, and end up destroying it.

Requirements planning should be the starting point in identifying what the busines does and its needs on 'must have' and 'nice to have' basis then identify a supplier that fits your business model. An important consideration here is to identify your own internal resources and capabilities because once the implementation team have achieved some sort of sign off on the project your remedies will be limited by your own capabilities and the size of the cheque book.

Having achieved success with selecting the right system for your business, getting the functional areas of the business to buy into the change process and own it, there are all the post implementation issues to resolve. On-going cost of ownership, what shape has your in-house IT team got ? will you have to buy in all your support from the vendor, do operational staff have sufficient knowledge and training to take the business forward ? Budget for all the fine tuning and endless requests for data and reports........
Has the vendor got a credible user group, and so the questions go on.

Get a system that fits the business requirement, SAP is fine for pharmaceuticals, automotive manufacturers with big budgets and geographic spread. If you are not in this league plenty of alternatives, Lawson, Microsoft Dynamics, Epicor, Syspro are but a few and accommodate a range of budgets and capabilities.

As you can tell, your initial question is huge in it's scope; and by the way good luck! I would be happy to share with you some of my experiences with this complex area.

I have used several different ERP/MRP softwares: pc/MRP, Western Digital, PeopleSoft, IFS, and SAP. I've noticed two of those packages as follows:

pc/MRP: very inexpensive, user-friendly, yet powerful enough for part numbers, BOMs, suppliers, POs, Sales, RMAs, receiving, shipping, AR and AP, work orders, S/N tracking, and even ISO vendor delivery rating.

SAP: written with multiple languages and exceptionally powerful/extensive information linkage. Since additional details are greatly integrated, there often are more than one way to get the same results without having to leave one screen and open another. Also, one can keep up to six different open sessions/screens from the same module at a given time, to multi-task.

Hi Kyle,
Just now in mid 2010 your company is beginning to think of ERP systems? Except for start up companies, how does any manufacturer compete without one? The ERP boats have been leaving the dock for years! Currently your company is looking at 2012 at best to benefit from creating the resemblance of an ERP system. There is a learning curve in all ERP scenarios big or small, its like anything tried the first time, expect one step forward two steps back then three forward, etc... Conditioning wellness in a manufacturing operation is a slow start, then it gains momentum as management acts accordingly to measured results. I guess the thought of finding a market leader in ERP counts some, but action and determination is what makes the ERP wheel go round. It's very much like the lean process of continuous improvement. Tell your company to make lots of room in their cash flow for developing an ERP, its almost like R&D, it needed to be there long ago.

I would suggest leading technology but not "bleeding" technology to get things started. It's late in the game and there's not really much time to ponder who's the best partner and has the most experience. As long as it floats and works and gets your company to the next level thats what they need. Build on your companies strengths. Whatever your using today must become an extension for tomorrow. Most likely you have teams using some sort of Microsoft applications to communicate electronically today. They're well known in most organizations and familiar to work with. The Microsoft Dynamics suite of modules is probably the best scalable ERP out there for the small to mid size manufacturer. It costs about one of your managers' annual salaries to license and load up. It has the tools to start reducing overhead waste immediately because its seamless with MS OFFICE, MS PROJECTS, and AutoCAD software. If only accounting uses it to track GL activity for 6 months there's no business loss. It uses current hardware so there's normal desktop attrition (hopefully you budget for that, I suggest 10% annually of the projects origin expense).

Once your company has 70% resemblance of an ERP working (expect 18 months of progress) then your company will have learned a lot of what not to do as well as what to do. That's when to call in experts and listen as they tell qualifying stories of how to maximize the use and train up your teams. There are very fine ERP consulting organizations with seasoned veterans who will help for a valuable fee.

In my opinion your company just needs to get on a boat an get going.

Best regards,

Steve Snodgrass

I work as an ERP Software Selection consultant. We help mid-size companies research and select the best ERP solution for their business, based upon their specific requirements. There are a number of white papers on our website: www.panorama-consulting.com that may be useful in helping you select the right package. You may be surprised to learn that there are well over 100 ERP packages on the market. Feel free to contact me for more information.

I agree with Martin.

In an era of tremendous changes, a large company commercial is not a good reference.
Find a consultant, and especially to be trusted to help you decide, but decide for yourself.

Good luck and greetings.

Times have changed and so did the ways and means of implementing ERP. Heard of Preconfigured SAP solutions tailor made for Pharma companies. I have seen atleast 25 of them all successfully running.