Is CRM really worth the hassle?

I grew up on ACT, and Goldmine, and have worked with clients that have implemented Sugar, Sage, Dynamic and Salesforce. I like many who have responded question the complexity of CRM tools.

As a person who has documented manual and automated workflow I am astonished at the way systems designers, including CRM, pay little attention to how people do their jobs. A CRM system should compliment a workforce not force it to make numerous right turns to sandwich them into a process that bears little resemblance to what has worked in the past and is currently in use.

Map your current sales processes from lead generation to deal close and customer support and follow up. Then look at CRMs that can provide and enhance the process. Don't ask mature sales people to spend time away from customers and prospects doing data input to feed the CRM monster. It is counterproductive, lowers sales morale, and ultimately defeats the purpose of automating the sales process.

Is CRM Really Worth the Hassle? NO! If you are not willing to take the necessary actions (well defined in the many commentaries in this post), don't waste your time and money.

I like to equate CRM with joining a gym. If you are not willing to go 3 times a week (at least) and work hard and sweat when you are there - then don't bother because you will not see results and eventually you will give up. It's human nature!

To see the results of the effort required in CRM (I know we should not talk about the bad word "effort" but it is the truth) you must follow my CRM Success Tips:

1. Don't Try to Eat an Elephant in One Sitting
2. Look for the Sweet Spot
3. Support your People ALL the Time
4. Don't Expect Miracles Out of the Gate
5. Don't Despair when Everyone doesn't Share the Excitement
6. Let Your Creative Side Out
7. Make People Accountable to Each Other
8. Assign a CRM Mama
9. Better Find a Role for the Unruly Teenager Outlook
10. Don't Give up Half Way up the Mountain

For the sake of the reader I didn't expand on these points but I am sure you get the idea.

A very annoying thing about CRM is how everyone wants to promote their products. It's not about products, it's people's habits and unwillingness to change, along with difficult processes that are the challenge and create the barriers to making CRM definitely worth the hassle.

Hi there,

First I see that you have pointed your attention to web-based CRM solutions for your business size, which is good because you won’t have to implement a solution. However, the problem with the adoption of the solution remains.

The web-based CRM solution will help you a lot with your business processes and customer satisfaction, only if your business adopts it right. A lot of people from your company won’t like it and may feel that their working positions are threatened, because software do not make mistakes like the employees. For that purpose you may need to invest some resources in staff training for best adoption.

The selection process is well-described by Mr. Vellmure but I find it too complex for a small/mid size business. You need to find a solution for your needs and for that purpose make a list of desired vendors according to your requirements (keep in mind future needs) and resources and make a few tests. Almost every CRM vendor has a free trial to test and I see that you need Excel and Outlook integration so you may include the WebCRM's trail on your test list.

As for the question "Is CRM worth it", you will find the answer when your old clients return to your services/products with even more requirements.

WebCRM: http://www.webcrm.com/

In the case of CRM, less is more. Most systems are wildly over engineered, and end up with junk all over the place. Whatever you use, make sure that you limit the number of fields users can populate, and budget at least as much money to keep your data clean as you spent for the system. In short, though, CRM is worth the hassle if: 1) you have a Sales Management Process where multiple people need access to the salesperson's funnel, or 2) you have turnover where record keeping is important for the new person to pick up responsibility.

The short answer is that, for a growing organization where coordinating the activities of not just individuals but a TEAM is important, CRM can play an invaluable role.

As companies grow, the complexity of customer interactions rises rapidly to the point where ad hoc solutions (such as spreadsheets, contact managers, Outlook, etc...) are no longer able to track the complex interactions that take place between multiple internal groups and personnel (sales, customer service, marketing, etc...) and multiple contacts at accounts.

Of course, all of this is subject to the excellent criteria and processes that Brian lays out, and it may be beyond the need of smaller organizations for whom ad hoc processes and 'systems' are often sufficient.

But the goal of most smaller companies is to become bigger companies. Properly implemented, and despite the scary failure statistics (companies that ignore advice like Brian's) - yes CRM can absolutely be an investment worth making - at the right time, and for the right reasons.

It depends on what kind of sales force you have. Many sales reps are so full of energy (makes them good at their job) that details/organization can be a challenge for them naturally (hunter types) even if they are consultative. Then there are the farmers who like to track and keep track of information to help grow their relationship/business/cross-selling. Then there are the builders who are very consultative, require collaboration with many teams/depts/client staffers to complete and service the sale. Then there are the assistants who input/utilize the data/market/follow up etc.

I would suggest taking into consideration being able to accomodate all of these different styles of sales/support if this fits your business model but prioritizing what kind of sales rep/process do you have and what kind of data do you need searched for by the rep/marketing/admin/management.

For the hunters simplifying is key, inputting data needs to be easy/quick/automated for fast entry and follow up. For the farmers the data needs to be accessible/rich/customizable for maximum impact and sourcing. For the builders the data needs to be able to coordinate and multi-task with as many depts/staff as needed without overwhelming and making complex work simple as possible. Simplifying while customizing invoicing is key.

Good CRM will utilize the option for checklists/coaching input/reminders to improve skill sets/relationship building/marketing/client contact that is not shotgun or rigidly scripted but important to improve the sales process and still be client specific while saving time.

Feedback from customers is necessary whether that is asked and documented or automated (most don't reply)or part of the ongoing sales process but keep it simple and benchmarked so it can be quantified.

Hopefully, you can shut off pieces you don't need to keep people form getting bogged down.

Then customer service/support/training of the software itself can play a role. I like things you can figure out without a lot of training but the world of tech seems to be getting more complex as it gets more robust.

Who offers all this? If Sugar would get better at client service (find a great reseller who does that and then would recommend Sugar). Sales Force can be expensive for some but is a good standard to measure against.

Hope this helps.

George, Jeffrey's points are right on. Keep it simple. Also adoption is frequently an issue, so the CRM needs to be more than a virtual rolodex, it needs to be part of the process. Therefore, it is critical that reps find value there (make them get the marketing leads there, for example). You'll find the CRM becomes the common ground for both marketing and sales and provides better visibility for all those responsible for revenue.
If you're looking for help choosing, reach out, we take clients through selection and implementation processes as part of our offerings at The Pedowitz Group.

All valid points. As with most projects getting back up from top management is essential to the success of implementation. Having a few embassadors working with the system will help the "reputation" of the system within the organization. If you have that you are well on your way and crm can very well be worth the hassle. Heck, it might even increase your revenue :-)

More food for thought. Brian and Chris give sound advice. The success of any initiative is contingent on preparation. Know your clients and potential clients. Determine your strategy, tactics, policies and procedures. Identify the best way to measure your success, and failures, for that matter. Consider compensation, training, coaching, internal communications and marketing. Set priorities, make your plan and research the options when it comes to CRM. A "CRM Committee" to hash all this out is an excellent idea, and should include top management representation. Indeed, Jesper is correct in stating that "getting back-up from top management is essential to the success of implementation". This type of venture, whether a small, mid-size, or large company, must be enterprise-wide. Everyone, not just the "sales department" must be on the same page, aware of the company goals, engaged in the success of and committed to those goals, from the janitor to the CEO.

George, hi: I think there is good advice here. Keep it simple, whether web-based or a simple package solution (ACT or any of that ilk work just fine). Understand your process; understand the 3,4, or 5 primary reasons customers buy - and do not try to over-engineer. CRM can be implemented using 6 X 9 filing cards to begin with so that you can vet the process and the data you want to capture: and then I would suggest you keep this or another similar definition in mind. best, ngp
Customer Relationship Management (CRM) is a strategy based on customer focus, on customer knowledge, and on delighting the customer. CRM is real-time, actionable, customer knowledge management. The best CRM approaches are holistic, involving all facets of your business and demonstrating accountability for results. CRM becomes a guiding philosophy and framework for doing business and includes:

• differentiating and optimizing the customer experience
• building customer knowledge to provide value to both the customer and your business
• taking a portfolio management approach to customers – not every customer is worth keeping!
• using “value “ as defined by the customer - at each point in the customer’s lifecycle and with all
of your customer contacts

Loyalty with the right, core customers. Profitable loyalty:

How do you identify, acquire, and keep your most profitable customers?

How do you deliver the best customer experience?

Most web-based CRM products can be tested under a 30-day free trial. You can quickly determine which ones are right for your company. If today you are using spreadsheets, your next step should be one that isn't too onerous on your business. I would suggest starting with the automaton of contact management functions. Then move to automation of pipeline functions.

Go to the CRM Idol page at www.crmidol.com. The participants in this contest represent the best of the latest CRM vendors. They cover traditional CRM, support, social media and marketing.

I do think it's worth moving from spreadsheets to at least a minimal level of automation. You'll be able to more easily store and share information. And you'll be able to see your customer information in a single view.

George,

I won't repeat some of the great things others said but will highlight the main points.

Let me start with the obvious - excel is not a database. if you just go for a db then you better choose something else.
You don't want a simple db. you want to have a db that is easy to operate and maintain plus, a reporting tool but... most importantly a tool that will improve your sales.
You can have it in multiple systems, yes.
Is it worth having it in multiple systems, most probably not, but in rare cases it might.

As mentioned above, sales people hate entering data, usually they are the only one with the info (in case you thought about hiring a low sal to punch it in) and they prefer not to share it.

a db is good for Customer Strategy (info about them).
what you would also might want/need is a marketing tool - send branded letters, cards, etc...
a web tracking system - to check their online activity and add it to their profile
sales guide - guiding the sale person on the proposed activities to do/monitor according to the sales process.

My 2c
Vago

We are a small company in size but a large company in mission; we are relatively few in numbers, but infinitely capable is service,productivity, and creativity. We moved from ACT to Sage CRM this past year. My staff came to me making the case to purchase CRM not based only on what CRM could do, but on how we had already outgrown ACT, the amount of time it was taking to do certain tasks, and what it was costing to continue not only at our present customer base, but in our growth. I accepted the argument, they did due diligence in finding the right program, and we are finally up a running.

I would say that CRM is a larger hammer that can also paint, do fine tooling work, fill in holes,and add texture. If one of your sales team only wants to be a painter, then the capacities of your CRM install will be limiited. If your sales teams accepts their role within a team of individuals whose roles are equal and with out whom the customer sufferes...then CRM could be invaluable.

And, this is not an easy jump. If your sales team is used to spread sheets, maybe moving to ACT would be a better start. Then, CRM is in the future. We were already way passed spread sheets.

??

Regarding moving from a speadsheet to CRM, I think one step is missing that should inform your decision. ACT is easier to use, less expensive, and may have what you need...if and until you outgrown it.

I do not think I would have gone from Exel to CRM without several years using ACT.

Also, some programs have less options, which will make it easier. Too many choices...always more complexity!

Susan

Yes - If you do it properly and address the cultural and people elements. Remember the technology is the easy bit.

No - If you expect an expensive CRM project to cure all your business issues without addressing the Business Change issues.

We are a small company in size but a large company in mission; we are relatively few in numbers, but infinitely capable is service,productivity, and creativity. We moved from ACT to Sage CRM this past year. My staff came to me making the case to purchase CRM not based only on what CRM could do, but on how we had already outgrown ACT, the amount of time it was taking to do certain tasks, and what it was costing to continue not only at our present customer base, but in our growth. I accepted the argument, they did due diligence in finding the right program, and we are finally up a running.

I would say that CRM is a larger hammer that can also paint, do fine tooling work, fill in holes,and add texture. If one of your sales team only wants to be a painter, then the capacities of your CRM install will be limiited. If your sales teams accepts their role within a team of individuals whose roles are equal and with out whom the customer sufferes...then CRM could be invaluable.

And, this is not an easy jump. If your sales team is used to spread sheets, maybe moving to ACT would be a better start. Then, CRM is in the future. We were already way passed spread sheets.

??

Sales people don't tend to share information easily unless there is a common goal, clear rules, and common incentive. This type of behaviour encourages everyone to share information and therefore make a CRM work. I have seen decent CRMs fail just because people don't want to share their information about their clients.

You need to test drive the CRM. Ask the Vendor to input some of your live data and show you what the CRM "does to it." That way you can see how "out-of-the-box" it is. The less out-of-the-box, the more hassle, the more you'll pay and the longer it will take. There is a tussle going on right now in the CRM Vendor world: the traditional vending approach of large professional fees for customisation is losing out to more off-the-shelf, easy-to-apply products. In particular, any product with built-in shortcuts and handy facilities for sales reps for example, will score higher - with the end users. The test drive should tell you all this.

Outstanding answers for one and all. I would like to throw in one thought however, as a business coach I see and speak with businesses throughout the year that bring up CRM with the idea that it is the "super cure" for whatever ails them, when in fact, many of them are in need of a good customer contact program not designed specifically for sales. My preference is ACT as it can be adapted for both and is perhaps less complicated and labor intensive than many.

So the questions is, do we/they need a sales management system or just a good customer contact system beyond what Outlook can offer. One last thing, ZOHO offers a web based CRM that may work well for many and it is low cost & free, you choose.

We have five people using our Cloud-Based CRM. In June, I switched us from a lifetime with ACT! (which is the gold standard for sales calls) to InfusionSoft, (which is the most comprehensive CRM + Sales Automation system around).

While there are some unhappy moments in both ACT! (it doesn't work in the cloud, it is missing some crucial components, forces you to do some stupid things) and IFS (it is hard to dial call by call and keep meticulous notes of each interaction, not user friendly) I have to say that the marketing automation aspect of IFS, esp the customer nurturing sequence, has already brought me close to an additional $40K in business with not very much effort!

I spent several years selling Oracle and SAP ERP implementation services and subsequently became involved in several CRM implementations. I have also been involved in several CRM selection and implementation initiatives from the client side. The main problem has always been the geeks building a sales process for sales people. Having said that, I have seen sales people put in charge of these initiatives that have become slaves to so many horrible CRM systems and seem to have lost their way. I really believe CRM will benefit a company if the right tools are chosen and implemented correctly. Put your top performing sales person on the committee and keep all none sales people out of the selection and process mapping. This includes IT, the CEO and the vendors. You can ask the CEO what he needs in terms of reporting and ask the IT staff what they need as far as integration and that is enough.

CRM is a process. good points have been made about the importance of BPA, right sizing and right peopling CRM's.
One thing I don't think is emphasized enough is the evolution of your business and therefore your CRM. It's a good news/bad news quandry as you're never done with your CRM which is challenging and since you're never done you have ongoing opportunities to improve and smooth your CRM. We have actually changed our CRM PM based on our assessment of current challenges and opportunities. We are now focusing on building the best multi-system integrated platform for CRM to support our business as we have discovered that there is no single CRM product that can support our entire range of business in an acceptable fashion. You can only smooth a square peg so much.

Hi George,
There are so many great answers but I want to express my idea briefly. If you could really examine your problem and collect data upon that and then, use the data for improve your bottle necks, CRM is worth the hassle. Almost every work has its own unique dynamics. Ask right questions to you,examine your problem, define right variables,after all of these you can determine which software is for you and you can focus on solution.

Hi George,

As far as your selection is concerned, you're not really giving us enough information. How many users do you have? Also, what is the call volume of the average user? I agree with Wendy Keller that ACT! is excellent for sales calls. I also agree with Shawn regarding the UI of Salesforce. If you do not have many users you really want to keep it simple. I have a client that is using Zoho and they really like it - particularly because of the mobile phone access. Also, it depends on your industry as there are some industry specific CRM tools on the market,. If you sell pharmaceuticals or medical devices then you need a product that can address Key Opinion Leader Management, expiry of samples, etc.

Tell us a little about your industry and what it is you want to achieve. Given the breadth of experience and the feed back so far I am sure that someone can give you a good recommendation based on their experience.

Wonderful set of responses. Having a system and process in place is as important as the choice of CRM tools. Having been part of several start ups, we have used Wiki's, or shared spreadsheets. As a solo entrepreneur, a CRM tools, even just a spreadsheet or word document, is valuable to hold yourself accountable for the results. Great discussion.

Is any application worth it? I remember when SAP (the ERP company) first hit the market. There was a lot of discussion about fitting the technology to your process or your process to the technology. In SAP's case, they expected you to fit your process around the technology. And they got it right.

Sometimes the process itself is broken. Today's market is vastly different from the market just 10 years ago. Yet many companies continue to train in and use outdated sales processes and expect technology to fix this situation.

Unfortunately, this question is way to complex to try and anser here. Like any technology, there is good and bad. Having worked with pretty much all the major vendors, each have their place, there good and bad. Knowing this and knowing your process and how you want to leverage CRM can help you make the best decision. Like coming to places like this and asking.

If more CRM vendors would better understand where their strength is and not try and be everything to everyone I think would be very helpful. Not likely to happen.

We started with a homegrown CRM and eventually went to salesforce.com. As we scaled, we have really built a lot of our business process around it by connecting it to other systems like our finance system, electronic signature/ contracts system, our own marketing platform (which we use and sell to our clients who also use salesforce.com) as well as our internal systems to monitor customer health and usage metrics. Sales, Support, Marketing and finance all touch the system today and it does make our lives easier, no doubt.

What I have found interesting over the years is that our reliance on the system or its "stickiness" for us is not as much from the perceived primary or original intended use of the system (sales notes and task tracking, opportunity management, reporting, pipeline management etc.) but from the fact that it integrated to so many other parts of the company. I can’t help but feel that without it, we would have people logging into lots of different systems and things would be a mess. Granted the peripheral apps are all still doing their own things but they are accessed from the CRM and events get logged and productivity gains are apparent.

Now our story is different when talking about an initial evaluation because we kind of needed to adopt salesforce.com to help us understand the right way to integrate our system with it and better understand our future customers. I think if I had gone through a full blown CRM evaluation 4 years ago only considering what I needed at the time I probably would not have chosen salesforce.com because there were other tools that would be better received by our sales team, easier to use and administer, less expensive, and the list goes on. Side note, I am a sucker for a good UI and the salesforce.com UI is one that only a C++ developer could love, in my opinion. Looking back at those systems now, I think we would have had a heck of a time supporting the business today and at some point would have had to make a move and depending on when we did, that could have been very painful.

Is salesforce.com the best CRM for managing a sales team, getting reports and getting a company off the ground? Probably not. From our experience though, the partner ecosystem of integrated 3rd party offerings and seemingly unlimited headroom for growth have worked well and taken some of the sting out of the price, complexity and adoption curve over time. That is not to say, my blood pressure doesn’t rise every time I have to add licenses or sign a renewal. It is not always fun being on the other side of a “sticky” app.

Hi all,

First off thank you all for great feedback!

I can see that Salesforce has been mentioned several times in this thread. It looks like a great solution, but some of my collegues have used it and they don't reccomend it - I will have a closer look anyway.

What we need is a simple, but scalable solution, where we have all the essentials and where we can easily customize the solution. We are used to using spreadsheets, so we don't need alot of fancy gadgets.

We are busy salespeople and the worst thing that can happen is that we get tied in to a never ending (expensive) CRM project that no one ends up using. Important factors: ease of use, simplicity, flexibility (to customize on our own) and the fact that the provider has great support, who knows what they are talking about and that they are responsive.

After doing some research we have found these top candidates:

WebCRM.com
CapsuleCRM.com
Workbooks.com
Bigcontacts.com
(Salesforce)

Any other solutions you can recommend looking at?

InfusionSoft, which does CRM and more.

George,

I would also recommend you look at Microsoft Dynamics and Oracle CRM On Demand.

I suggest a cost-effective OnCloud CRM solution which is quick to implement and has quick ROI (return on investment). Cloud CRM allows small businesses to experiment with new products, services and strategies, it does not require additional IT personnel to be hired and can store large amount of data to generate effective reports and analytics. Leads and customers can be imported into the system and their records are available anywhere through any web enabled device.

Explore CRMnext..
CRMnext
www.crmnext.com

You should take into consideration what you manage on top of CRM. Most CRM systems are catered towards larger organizations, and as a smaller organization I'd recommend looking into something that helps businesses your size specifically.

Integration is a huge aspect of these applications, as I'm sure you're managing other things than sales in your company. Most ERP focused systems won't take integration into account, meaning you have to deal with multiple systems to deal with other business needs like projects, billing, support, etc.

I'd suggest using a CRM that takes all of your needs into account, so you can save on integration headaches and keep your monthly subscription costs down. WORKetc is a great example of this, as it puts the entire lifecycle of your clients into one trackable system. Manage leads, convert the lead into a project, quote or invoice once you've won a sale, and collaborate with clients on projects. Then, track time through WORKetc and invoice your client, as well as handle support issues from the same app. Everything you've done with your client, as well as all correspondence between you and a client will show up in the client's history page at a glance.

WORKetc takes CRM to another level: http://www.worketc.com/business_crm

Hi George,

As a technology sales veteran and former CRM/SFA Administrator, I've seen CRM succeed and fail. Where it succeeds is when executive leadership inspires an entire team to adopt daily use. You know you have arrived when spreadsheets become dashboards online and are only generated from the CRM - not the reverse. Think about this: How do I know my business has a single version of the truth?

I would not be happy, nor as effective without a CRM. I have used over 20 different products over 30 years. I prefer Salesforce.com - far and away the most affordable and most scalable approach to the cultural change you are considering within your business.

I would also avoid the vendor bakeoff recommended by others. I sell software and too often witness small businesses doing analysis paralysis to themselves and to their salesforce. Speak with other business owners in your industry to learn what they've selected and why. Also - leverage your own power as a "prospect" and work with CRM vendors who will document your sales process for you. For example, speak with a Salesforce.com sales rep - in one 10 minute phone call you should be able to describe your business, your sales process, your plans for growth and projected rate of customer and prospect acquisition. Ask the rep to introduce you to a similar business (or three) who are successful using CRM. Find out how long it took to prove ROI and decide for yourself if you can afford not to take the next step.

Learn more about CRM here:

http://www.salesforce.com/resource_center/?d=70130000000FvO8#more

I am an independent consultant and unaffiliated with the above products or vendors.

CRM is only worth it if you are ready to start a behavioral transformation journey to generate improved sales productivity. Here is a link to a free download to a book called SPARK! which outlines 11 CRM enablement best practices.
www.bakercommunications.com/spark

George, if you are looking for a browser-based CRM tool that is easy and effective for a reasonable price, check out the Referral Manager solution at Strategix Performance. It automates sales opportunity referrals across and between all enterprise lines of business. Users can create referrals for both existing customers and new prospects, creating actionable lead lists and reports. Forget messing around with cumbersome and time-consuming spreadsheets. You can track and manage your referral pipeline on-line by type, date, source, unit, participant, status and priority (or any combination thereof) and kick out a real-time custom report daily / weekly / monthly - whatever suits your needs. It's well worth a look.