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Facebook can track what you do online, even when you're logged out. What is your reaction to this?

Facebook can track what you do online, even when you're logged out of Facebook. What is your reaction to this? Do any other websites do this?

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11
Robert Keahey
IT, Business and Social Strategist/Commentator, SummaLogic LLC

Surely this is not surprising to anyone. And while I can't personally attest to or validate the fact, I would assume that this is not an unusual practice.

It's about having as much insight into your likes, wants, needs and behavior as possible. The company that has the most wins in the targeted marketing game. While Facebook states that they do not use this data to place ads, you can bet that they are monetizing it (or planning to) in other ways. Otherwise, why collect it? Granted, some of their reasons may have some modicum of validity, but in the end, it's about knowing your every move.

What is interesting is the reaction to these events. Our behavior and buying habits have been tracked for years, but we seem to be shocked by these revelations. Yet we sign up for hundreds of web sites without reading the privacy statements and/or terms of service. We are a "click and go" society. We have an insatiable appetite for instant gratification.

There will be an uproar, Facebook will change a few things - maybe even give us an "opt out" capability. Maybe some sharp developers will give us some browser extensions/plug-ins to delete cookies when we log out. We will move on. At some point Congress will pass meaningful legislation to address privacy concerns, but it will be a while - special interest and lobbying groups will see to that!

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Candyce Edelen
Candyce Edelen Replied on Sept. 28, 2011

There is a big difference between tracking our moves on one site vs. tracking our moves across the Internet (and physical location if you've allowed FB access to location services on your phone). There is also a big difference between a marketer tracking visitors on their site to see what content they value vs. tracking them on every other website they visit.

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Candyce Edelen
Candyce Edelen Replied on Sept. 28, 2011

wish I could edit that. Sorry for the repetition. LOL

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Frank Allen
Frank Allen Replied on Oct. 3, 2011

If you are really concerned opt out to having facebook account.. Easy answer... Otherwise accept the fact since you joined them not they joined you...

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David Young
David Young Replied on Oct. 3, 2011

I agree with your assessment, but I sincerely hope that Congress does not "pass meaningful legislation". The only thing that could make the situation worse would be government meddling, however well-intended it might be. Let the market take care of this problem. A few million people sign off of Facebook, and they will get the message.

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Glen Marshall
Principal, Grok-A-Lot, LLC

As has been noted by others, Facebook is a free service. So are most of Google's products, Twitter, Wikipedia, LinkedIn, and other social media and crowd-sourced data. The add-on apps and portals on mobile devices, all of which collect more data, are another dimension. Of course of credit-card usage adds to the data heap. We give-up privacy for convenience. Whether or not that is a an informed voluntary act is open to debate. What has changed is that our illusion of privacy has lately become more realistic, and we're uncomfortable about that change.

I do not worry about this. Marketing data-collection has been going on since I was born and before. If has grown more sophisticated, but has an unchanging core principal that targeted marketing is lucrative and the data for it is valuable in the aggregate and not fungible at the atomic level. You need to collect transaction-identifiable data, and do it massively. Personally-identifiable transaction data is even more valuable. We can expect better market economics and ROI, along with reduced cost. Few people understand that connection.

Those who are worried about privacy can opt-out. That means giving-up the high connectivity from the web and mobile apps, using cash only, not having a bank account, and varying one's daily routine randomly. Most people would find that burdensome.

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Amy Redstone
Amy Redstone Replied on Oct. 2, 2011

The inability to participate in the modern society without using Google's products show that it's not really just up to them to say "if you don't like it don't use it" -- a public utility has responsibilities.

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Doug Rowe
Doug Rowe Replied on Oct. 2, 2011

Give it a break. Public utility? What can you not do? Other search engines. Other online and offline apps. Other free email.

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Amy Redstone
Amy Redstone Replied on Oct. 2, 2011

If my business doesn't appear if my customers search Google, then I am out of business. When you think of public utilities, you think of things such as water, electricity, and telecommunications, right? Well, what if search were added to that list? How would you feel about that?

Google attracted a lot of users to use their tools, and many are now quite invested in those tools. But now they want everyone to use their "real name" even though some people's real names are not acceptable to the FirstName Lastname requirements. And others do not want to use their real names. Those people have been cut off from their own documents. Yes, this has happened already and G+ isn't even out of beta yet.

Google is allowing their beta software to affect their non-beta tools. Look up the story of Hugh Messenger, his real name, Messenger, was considered by Google's algorithm to be fake. They made him change it. This happened on Freddie Mercury's birthday, so he changed it to Mercury (the messenger of the greek gods) assuming it would be temporary and not imagining that it could cause a problem. But Google put that fake name on his Gmail account, and so his real name disappeared. He lost at least one client who thought he had abandoned him.

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Robert Glaser
UX Designer
Posted on Oct. 2, 2011

I don't know the how and where of Facebook's capabilities. Before I jump to conclusions, I'd like to know first which specific things that I'd do on Facebook would allow them to track me off of it.
Then again, I don't publish every triviality of my life in any social media. I don't play Facebook games. I don't publish inappropriate photos. Facebook, as an example, I have set to private and I find no use in accruing 'friends'. The people on my Facebook page are my actual friends and even considering that, I put nothing up on my Facebook page that I could not hold over my head walking through a public shopping mall.

What I find most interesting is that so many people are able to broadcast indiscriminately, often highly intimate personal facts or inflammatory opinions which would be inappropriate at a closed party of involved friends much less the general public.

Internet behavior has created this idea that is oddly one-sided. Individuals often broadcast or public vent their angers and frustrations and yet they are still surprised when it is reflected back at them. I'm not talking about cyberbullying (an entire subject itself with similar roots), just the incongruity of not expecting a reaction to a reactive statement.

Even though for me, I keep friends on Facebook, and business connection on LinkedIn, there's surprisingly little overlap. That is entirely by intent.

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Francine DiNapoli
Francine DiNapoli Replied on Oct. 4, 2011

I agree wholeheartedly, don't publish anything that might come back to harm you.

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Brielle Nikaido
Manager, Market Strategy, Salesforce.com

You make some excellent points, Robert.

It looks like Facebook is now saying that they collect this data to prevent spam and phishing attacks. They also claim to delete the data right away. http://blogs.wsj.com/digits/2011/09/26/facebook-defends-getting-data-from-log...

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Robert Keahey
Robert Keahey Replied on Sept. 26, 2011

Didn't take them too long...

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Andrew Baker
Andrew Baker Replied on Sept. 27, 2011

Because they were prepared to say something *if* out uproar took place.

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Craig Brennan
Craig Brennan Replied on Sept. 27, 2011

Once you place any kind of content on facebook, the privacy of that content (we won't even get into the ownership of that content. That's another discussion.) is as open or as closed as facebook allows it to be at any given moment. Facebook makes millions of dollars per year providing a free service to its users. What facebook users fail to get over and over is that they are not the customers of facebook. They are the product of facebook that is being sold.

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Andrew Baker
Director, Service Operations, SWN Communications Inc.

Robert,

You make some good points about consumer behavior. Basically, we willingly and regularly surrender all sorts of privacy rights in the name of convenience. Then, we become (or act) outraged when something like this is published.

A free service needs to pay for itself somehow, so we shouldn't be shocked that companies like Facebook will seek to monetize their service in one or more ways.

-ASB: http://XeeMe.com/AndrewBaker

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Raymond Pinard
President, 48HourPrint.com
Posted on Oct. 2, 2011

Glenn makes some excellent points.
Caveat emptor. Cancel the service if you disagree with their terms of service.

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Lynn Maria Thompson
President, Thompson Writing & Editing, Inc.
Posted on Oct. 3, 2011

This is no surprise, as many have already stated. And if you have a website for your business, you should be using Google Analytics or one of the paid web analytics systems and realize that pretty much everything you do online is being tracked by somebody. Google, Yahoo, Alexa...the list goes on and on. It's important information for website owners who know how to interpret it, and is used to make those websites better selling tools. If you don't like it, don't go online. There are several Facebook apps I've opted out of because they state up front that they'll be able to alter things in my own profile. The Internet is a valuable tool, but you have to use it and all its components with caution and awareness.

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Ken Mason
Independent Consultant
Posted on Oct. 2, 2011
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It should come as no surprise that FB and other sites use the techniques discussed above. The user community has options to combat invasions of privacy, although they are currently limited to the more sophisticated and savvy users such as members of Focus. There was a thread some time back with recommendations for maintaining a degree of anonymity, one of which is to join the Tor network. The linked article has a download link and good discussion of privacy issues that is worth the time of anyone with such concerns.

https://www.torproject.org/about/overview.html.en

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Richard Wermuth
Project Manager, Wermuth, Inc
Posted on Oct. 2, 2011
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I did not read the privacy policy when I signed up for FB and I should have. Since I use FB infrequently, I will opt out of FB and other a whole lot of other unnecessary sites. FB as a social or communication vehicle is not important to me.

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Paulo Castro
CEO / President, FullMind Design
Posted on Oct. 2, 2011
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My reaction is one of acceptance. The moment I decided to use Facebook as a communications tool I also accepted its terms of use. Facebook keeps a record of what I do online or offline (share comments, photos, videos, interests, some personal information, etc) and I decided I would take advantage of this functionality. Likewise, I am aware of potential risks of sharing certain information. For this, I made some adjustments to the configuration and settings of my profile. Also, I defined what information I would share with others, and what I prefer to keep confidential.

The moment we all decided to use an instrument, service, machine, vehicle, etc., we assume responsibility for our actions (and we even buy insurance to help us manage the risks). Consequently, it is our responsibility to use this tool responsibly, safely, and take advantage of all its benefits.

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In talking about this topic with social media gurus, Facebook is only one of many who track your online activity.

Many companies are now getting on board so they basically follow you around the Internet. It sounds shady, but like Darrell said, it is not illegal - yet. Think about it... have you visited one site, then gone to another site that has nothing to do with the previous site, but all of a sudden, you notice an ad for the site you just left on the new search page? It's because the business for that site you just left is tracking you around the Internet so they can continue to market to you sending 'not so subliminal messages' to get you to buy.

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Makes me want to turn off my cell phone GPS Locator!!!

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Macie Dawkins-Hanna
Management Consultant & Small Business Advisor, Dawkins & Associates
Posted on Oct. 2, 2011
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Who cares? This website "Focus" is a typical example of the number of people who are losing sleep over Facebook and what they think or what they do. How may people are registered users of "Focus?" Do they look as though they are afraid to say what they want to say or do what they want to do, or go where they want to go because Facebook is watching? Don't seem that way to me! Almost everyone on "Focus" website has a photo besides their name and a link to their website. Exchange of communication is ongoing at "Focus" - don't sound like a scary crew to me! So let "Facebook" do what they want to do. It shows clearly that the crew at Facebook don't have very much to do because the users are not checking they are doing their own thing :-)

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Richard Wermuth
Project Manager, Wermuth, Inc
Posted on Oct. 2, 2011
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If Facebook can track my on-line activity, I would want to sue Facebook or get a restraining order against Facebook. Only decorum prvents me from stating a more radical response to this illegally intrusive practice.

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Darrell Greenhouse
Darrell Greenhouse Replied on Oct. 2, 2011

Richard,

I don't want to appear to be a contrarian, but if you read FB's policies, you'll realize that they are actually within their legal rights (currently). Congress or some other legislative body may change that, but for now, when you create an account, you accept their policies. You can rest assured that they have a phalanx of legal representatives that are pouring over every detail of their site; although some things that will bite them will obviously sneak out from under the rug from time to time.

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