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Steve Gershik
Vice President of Marketing, SiriusDecisions
Posted on July 10, 2011

Good question. It's hard. That's why if you do a search for "sales and marketing alignment", you'll see they've been talking about this for more than 20 years.

1. Get agreement from the CEO that this is important.

If you don't get buy in from the head of the company, trying to do this is an academic exercise. And you'd be surprised how many CEOs aren't interested in the change management exercise that makes up the backbone of really bringing marketing and sales into alignment. Advice: If your CEO is one of these, quit your job, short the company's stock and be grateful that you escaped the pit of doom that the company will become.

2. Promise sales that if they tell you what they want, marketing will deliver it.

Doesn't matter what it is. Do they want a list of names? Provide it. They looking for fully qualified leads with all BANT (budget, authority, need and timeframe) criteria defined? Fine. it just costs money. But the flip side is once sales agrees to it, you write it down, sign it, send it to everyone who may be called in a deposition in the future, and make it law. Because marketing departments who are trying to fix a problem with sales often have low credibility, this is critical.

3. Report on the same metrics.

If you ask sales and marketing leaders what they report to the management team (or the Board), very often you'll get things like this from them:

Marketing: downloads, names of trade show attendees, "touches" (unless you are in the spa industry, this probably isn't an important metric), web traffic, social media mentions

Sales: closed deals, total revenue, opportunity pipeline, sales forecast, qualified leads

Make sure the management team cares about, and talks about, the same measures.

and here's one bonus action that's been a controversial topic these days:

4. Bite the bullet and give marketing variable compensation

There's a lot of resistance to this in the marketing world. The logic goes, "we can open the door to a lead, but sales has to close it." That's pithy. And hogwash. Marketing can do a lot to affect lead volume, quality, velocity and close of business. If it means one less doodad they produce and get out in the field to help close, so be it. By paying marketing in part on closed business, the organization puts its money where its alignment is.

Lastly, and with all due respect to the super smart other commenters here, you can't tell your marketing and sales organization HOW to do this. Alignment is a code word for change management and the only way you can be successful is if all stakeholders have a part to play in figuring out the tactics to implement.

If you try to impose things on the organization (like forcing marketing and sales to attend each other's meetings), you increase the chances of fomenting resentment among people who are very creative at inventing ways not to do things.

0
Adele  Revella
Adele Revella Replied on July 11, 2011

I agree with three of your four answers, Steve. But I'm really worked up about #2 -- give the sales people whatever they want. This will turn your marketing department into a sales support organization, in which case the company should allocate all of that headcount to sales and be honest that it does not have a marketing department.

So few companies know how to create a marketing department that adds any value, why not convert it into a sales support team?

I'll tell you why -- sales people work one account at a time, and if someone does not get out and do the real job of marketing -- developing expertise on how markets full of buyers will respond to the company's products, and learning how to persuade them -- sales will never get what it really needs either.

Sales and marketing alignment will only happen when all of your recommendations are in place, but I want a new #2 --

2) Get marketers to understand the buyers so well that they can tell sales which buyers will be most receptive to the sales pitch, what they will love about the product, and which obstacles they will have to overcome. Make marketing accountable for delivering campaigns, sales tools and programs that makes it easy for buyers to find that the company has exactly the right answer to all of their questions at each stage in the buying process.

I could go on, but you get the drift. If you want more, read my ebook The Buyer Persona Manifesto http://bit.ly/lqEo7B .

0
Steve Gershik
Steve Gershik Replied on July 11, 2011

Hi Adele,

Just saw your tweet and read your response.

To clarify #2, I don't meant to suggest that marketing should be a trained dog that jumps through hoops for sale. The point is that in order to get accountability from both sides of the house, marketing and sales MUST agree on what marketing will deliver. And there shouldn't be preconceived notions about what that deliverable must be -- it could be lists of names (bad idea, but it's a start) or stack ranked and prioritized lists based on buyer articulated need, observed online behavior and inferred information about them.

The point is to reach AGREEMENT on what those things are and then stick to them.

0
Adele  Revella
Adele Revella Replied on July 11, 2011

Thanks for the quick reply Steve, and for clarifying that agreement is a good idea. But your headline for #2 is also misleading. Sales knows what they want, but not what they need. We have a lot of education to do to get the company to understand the role of marketing as a strategic resource that guides sales rather than the other way around. I hope you'll check out my ebook and let me know what you think.

0
Steve Gershik
Steve Gershik Replied on July 11, 2011

I downloaded and read your eBook Adele (nice design!) and I agree with almost all of it.

What I profoundly disagree with is this statement, above: "Sales knows what they want, but not what they need."

I'm sure you didn't mean to sound patronizing or arrogant to sales, and it's a common trend these days to say that marketing needs to talk more with the customer. But we can't go AROUND our sales colleagues to do it. In your eBook, you say: "sales reps may not want Marketing talking to their contacts. So you may need the Marketing head to ask the Sales head to help secure cooperation."

That kind of conversation dooms marketing and sales professionals to work in silos, at a minimum and, more likely, in opposition.

If marketers enter the conversation with sales as professional, knowledgeable colleagues, who work very close to the customer, you will have better outcomes with higher chances of success.

0
Adele  Revella
Adele Revella Replied on July 11, 2011

Thanks for taking the time to read and comment on The Buyer Persona Manifest. This is a big cultural change and this dialogue is vital.

Many B2B companies are aligning sales and marketing (and creating a competitive advantage) by building marketing teams that have the skill to uncover insights that buyers would never reveal to sales people.

Sales people are often as concerned as you are, but their reaction is overwhelmingly enthusiastic when they see that the leads are far more qualified, the sales tools are absolutely on target, and quota is retired with unprecedented ease.

At launch, marketers are able to tell sales (with scary accuracy) what's going to work during the selling buying process and how/why the deals will go awry. They can prepare sales to meet these issues head-on because they have knowledge the sales people cannot know.

Want to align sales and marketing? Get them both focused on buyers.

This isn't a theoretical discussion for me. I've worked with more than 5,000 B2B marketers over ten years, in technology companies of every size, and seen this work. And I did this work myself while running sales and marketing in technology companies for the ten years before that.

I've also seen this approach break down due almost entirely to the kind of issues in this thread. Thanks for the chance to expose the issues to more of our colleagues.

3
Carlos Hidalgo
CEO, The Annuitas Group
Posted on July 11, 2011

Good question and agree with Steve that is hard but very achievable.

1. First and foremost stop addressing alignment as if it is the issue itself. Alignment is a symptom of greater issues in the organization. If it was indeed the problem, one would think it would have been solved by now given the amount of documentation that exists on how to solve it. Once organizations begin to solve the greater problems that exist, the alignment symptom will go away.

2. Develop a process. As Kathleen references above, the collaborative development of a process is one of the core issues that causes the gap that exists in many organizations. With marketing and sales working together to address:
- Data Management
- Lead Planning
- Lead Routing (SLA's)
- Lead Qualification (including scoring and definition of every stage of the funnel)
- Lead Nurturing
- Content Blueprint
- Metrics

This lead management process framework allows for all in the org to know what success looks like and how the buyer relationship will be managed.

3. Align compensation. Marketers should not be permitted to only measure clicks and open rates on their email campaigns or be able to stop measurement with the number of inquires. Some level of their compensation must be tied to impact on revenue and pipeline.

Carlos Hidalgo
The Annuitas Group
@cahidalgo

0
Richard Fouts
Richard Fouts Replied on July 21, 2011

Carlos, your first sentence caught my attention. Defining it as an alignment issue is part of the problem. This reminds of the IT debate that has gone on for decades which asks, "How can IT better align with the business?" I have a client who, like Carlos, had a similar belief in questioning the word alignment, and instead asks one simple question each time an IT project is proposed: "How will this investment help us compete?" Clever idea and very effective. Now IT must figure that out - and of course in doing so, must learn about the business. Now, his IT organization is practically joined at the hip with the business. When I'm in meetings with this client, I can hardly tell the difference between the business people and the IT people.

So .. this CIO has succeeded. And - he didn't launch some big, lengthy death-by-powerpoint initiative to do it. He simply asked his IT people to answer that one question when they proposed an IT project.

So my challenge to all you smart marketers: what could the CEO do to affect the same success between marketing and sales? With something equally simple? Is it possible?

2
Tibor Shanto
Sales/Marketing, Renbor Sales Solutions Inc.
Posted on July 10, 2011

Extend the definition or boundary of the pipeline to reflect the entire “client acquisition cycle”; creating a singular accountability.

Create a single incentive plan based on measurable results, extending Kathleen’s second point.

Beyond attending sales calls, marketing should have joint ownership for renewal up-sells and penetration.

1
Christine Crandell
Serial CMO, author, speaker and blogger, NBS
Posted on July 22, 2011

let's start with a definition for alignment - here is the one I've been using for several years.

“Sales and marketing collaboratively working toward the common goal of profitably increasing revenue and customer lifetime experiences through shared processes, resources, service level agreements and metrics.“

(c)-Christine Crandell

0
Kathleen Schaub
Vice President, CMO Advisory Service, IDC
Posted on July 10, 2011
  • Recommended by:

1.Take the subjectivity and opinions out of the conversation: document the agreement of what is a good lead; bring data to every discussion; create reasonable service level agreements for both sales and marketing and measure compliance

2. Align goals: measure outcomes, not activity

3. Increase communication: regular meetings at multiple levels of the two organizations, co-locate where possible, train marketing along with sales, deploy collaborate tools

Here's a viewpoint: Sales are like pilots and marketing is like air traffic control: http://bit.ly/hGW6pF

0
Marge Bieler
CEO & Founder, RareAgent
Posted on July 11, 2011
  • Recommended by:

3 Tangible Things Marketing and Sales Can Do:

1. Get executive management in a room, with business teams; sales along with operations, finance and customer service - Give everyone a pad of sticky notes - Use an egg timer and ask everyone to write what first word, comment or answer that comes to mind on their sticky pads, one thought per sticky note, when asked these three questions - What can we do to drive and accelerate revenue? What can we do to provide better customer service? What do our customers want from our organization? . Ask collective group to vote which three are the most important to their organization. Combine all sticky notes on one flip chart and rank top three answers for each question.

2. Ask executive management to sit in and moderate a meeting between sales and marketing. Ask each team to define their roles, accountability and define denition of lead gen, marketing lead, marketing qualitied lead and marketing accepted lead. Do the same for sales, ask how marketing leads will convert over to sales leads. Ask where is process getting stuck today and how would they like it changed in the future. Ask them where they are not clear on their roles and what they would like to help bring clarity to their roles. Again, collect and rank in order of importance.

3. Send a survey to sales and marketing teams and ask where the SFA/CRM/Marketing Automation/Process is working and where it is not working and why. If they had $100,000 where would they spend this and why? Content Development, sales training, etc. this will help you determine the priorities of each team and where they are and are not aligned.

Finally, ask everyone to write down the name of a company that comes to mind who has excellent marketing and sales alignment. From here, ask if anyone has a connection to an executive of these companies. Ask this person to help setup a call so your executive staff can speak to company that comes to mind with excellent marketing and sales alignment. The goal of the meeting is to share insight on the process, pain and success in building an aligned marketing and sales team.

0
Matt Heinz
President, Heinz Marketing Inc
Posted on July 12, 2011
  • Recommended by:

Carlos is right, the very idea of creating alignment between sales & marketing is part of the problem. The organizations that have best solved this challenge aren't tackling a sales & marketing alignment problem, but have instead prioritized a proactive, cross-functional approach to customer acquisition overall.

They have created an organizational philosophy that makes a common approach to the customer acquisition funnel a fundamental part of doing business, not a quarterly initiative.

But most organizations aren't starting from scratch; they're trying to make existing teams and processes more effective. Below are the three priorities I believe most quickly & successfully lead to a consistent approach and accelerated results.

1. Gain active executive sponsorship
Ensure someone above sales & marketing has prioritized alignment. It can be a CEO, COO or CFO. But this person needs to not just be a passive "copied on email" supporter. Ideally, they are helping to drive the process and ensure participation from all parties.

Link 2. Create common reporting & success metrics
I'm not talking about a document that has half marketing and half sales objectives. What's required for trust alignment is a common set of metrics that both sales and marketing are measured against. Marketing has to take responsibility for closed business, sales must take responsibility for lead quality and conversion, and so on.

3. Operationalize a single, integrated acquisition team
This is more than just weekly meetings. Sales & marketing team members need to tackle customer acquisition challenges together on a daily basis. This means listening to or attending sales calls, having frank and metrics-driven conversations about lead channel quality, etc.

0
Henry Bruce
President, Rock Annand Group
Posted on July 28, 2011
  • Recommended by:

This whole conversation on the so called marketing and sales alignment issue reminds of two anectdotes

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Henry Bruce
President, Rock Annand Group
Posted on July 29, 2011
  • Recommended by:

I hate when you can't finish a comment you started. Here's what I was trying to say. I feel this whole alignment discussion is focusing on the wrong things as a few have stated. Though it would be nice if the CEO were in the room with sales and marketing to make sure they are playing nicely, the CEO expects that his two VPs are focused on the corporate objectives, specifically the revenue targets and are working together to make the results happen. If the targets are not met, everyone will be asked to account for what they did not do. This is where marketing continually makes a tactical mistake when dealing with sales and the CEO. I believe that it's up to marketing to make the relationship with sales work and that means demonstrating how the demand generation plan puts more closable business in sales pocket. It's about results and having the metrics and data to show the impact on revenue. Anything less is just talk that sales ignores

. This debate reminds of the dialogue between Red Sox and Yankee fans before 2004. Sox fans and the Boston media talked of the rivalry with the hated Yanks while Yankee fans simply yawned. Most did not see a rivalry as the yanks always won and Sox just talked ... And lost. Then 2004 and2007 happened and now Yankee fans are listening and buying into the rivalry. Marketing needs to be more Machivellian in their dealings with sales. Make sure that programs deliver results every 90days or less, especially when introducing new programs or capabilities like marketing automation. For example run a dead leads campaign and make sure that some of the activity is for 1 or 2 of the top reps. We usually find several deals that were ignored by those reps. When they close those, then you have sales attention to what you are trying to do with your lead management and lead nurturing program.

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Nick poulos
Problem Solver, chrysalis marketing
Posted on July 29, 2011
  • Recommended by:

Forgive me for perhaps taking a new tack:
First assertion: all sales is marketing and all marketing is sales
Second: it always is easier to say than do
Third, the idea of "alignment" may be less ideal as a metaphor to help us envision the desired end-state than Frank Cespedes' metaphor of "the marketing gearbox" (his us of the "m-word" is the reason for my first assertion), which he more completely describes in his book "Concurrent Marketing".
I have followed and use his advice with every client:
* cooperation and coordination between and across all functional areas is critical for success. One roadblock most organizations face is the fact that each functional area has its own set of metrics and tries to optimize its individual results with a noticeable lack of regard for those other areas with which it needs to cooperate and coordinate its actions relative to customers....
And that puts us back to the easier said than done portion of this debate.
Implementing this change successfully will take time, communications, training, reinforcement, training, more communications, and a balanced scorecard type of metrics; and then more communications and training. best, ngp

-1
James Obermayer
CEO-Executive Director, Sales Lead Management Association
Posted on July 9, 2011

1. Place the responsibility for the departments under a single VP of Marketing and Sales. The two must now work together or risk the retribution of their superior.

2. Place the offices of the heads of marketing and sales next to one another.

3. Make it mandatory that marketing management attend sales meetings.

These things force the sales and marketing managers into cooperation of necessity that would not normally be probable if they were not forced to work together. Remember what Machiavelli said, "Men never do good unless necessity drives them to it; but when they are free to choose and can do just as they please, confusion and disorder become rampant."

-1
Peter Johnston
Director (CEO), Intelligent Prospecting
Posted on July 18, 2011
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Three tangible actions:

First key action - change the mindset.

Parallel lines are in perfect alignment - but they never interact.

Until we consider ourselves part of a unified prospecting department we will never succeed.

Second key action - change the mindset.

People buy through testing ideas of their own, through collaborating and through asking questions much more than through listening or reading. Remember how we always learned more from our practical classes, than from writing down what was on the board.
I hear and I forget. I see and I remember, I do and I understand.

The greatest opportunity presented by the internet is to interact. To build relationships with people we've never met.

Stop presenting. Stop talking at. Stop publishing.

Start conversing. Start engaging. Start building relationships.

Third key action - change the mindset.

Stop thinking in terms of building engagement towards a face to face appointment. By the time you get there the decision is mostly made.

Stop thinking in terms of marketing campaigns. The internet is 24-7-365. People are checking you out over breakfast. After they've put the kids to bed. Every day, even holidays and weekends (even if its B2B). You need to interact with all of them in their timeframe and in the way they want you to - they are not data for a campaign.

Stop thinking in terms of a relay race with customers being handed from department to department and person to person. people choose someone they trust and believe they can solve their problem. They build that engagement with every touch. Every handover means they have to start from scratch. Or, of course, make the decision to go elsewhere. Building trust takes consistency.

Last, but not least, stop bowing before the great god technology. That won't magically transform broken company structures - it will magnify the errors you make.

Remember it is Technology Aided Prospecting. Get the prospecting bit right first.

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