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What are some of the biggest myths or misconceptions about diversity in today’s workplace?

This question was asked during last night's #TChat. More information about #TChat can be found on TalentCulture.com.

Attachments

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William Tincup
CEO, Tincup & Co.
Posted on June 23, 2011

For me the biggest myth is that we value diversity. I don't think most people, ahem leaders really value diversity. If they did, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

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Larry Edmonds
Instructional Designer, Windrose Training and Coaching
Posted on June 26, 2011

Myth 1: There is equal opportunity for all in the workplace. Sorry, but we know that racism still exists and can negatively impact a person's ability to move up the corporate ladder.

Myth 2: Gender is no longer an issue. Oops, again. In the White, heterosexual, male-dominated world of business of the past and present, men still prefer to hire and to promote other White, heterosexual men.

Myth 3: Promoting "minorities" to positions that work on diversity issues is a great idea. Not so fast. Not everyone from a so-called "minority" background has any greater experience dealing with a variety of co-cultures than anyone else and such a promotion can potentially lead to failure.

Myth 4: Creating diverse teams can always lead to greater success. While the idea is wonderful, research suggests that TOO MUCH diversity can slow a project down.

Myth 5: The best common way to get a project completed on time is to establish firm guidelines. Again, diverse backgrounds can put a damper on THIS idea. People may come from monochronic (linear time) oriented backgrounds or polychronic (non-linear time) oriented backgrounds,. Monochronic cultures, like the overarching U.S. culture, may work directly toward a deadline. Employees from a polychronic culture (for instance, a Latin American culture) may do any number of tasks in between the times they focus on the specific project. Deadlines are not considered as "firm" to those from polychronic cultures. The severity or looseness of the deadline should be considered before the team is assembled.

Myth 6: Affirmative Action benefits all folks from "minority" cultures. Well, not exactly. There are a VERY large number of small businesses that are completely unaffected by Affirmative Action rules and, therefore, are not under any obligation to hire people from cultures other than their own.

Myth 7: We've gotten past appearances. REALLY? A young person with a large number of or particularly visible tattoos and/or body piercing is not likely to get a job when that job has to do with customer contact, no matter HOW badly s/he might wish to work in retail, upscale restaurants, etc. Clothing should also not be ignored. For a Muslim woman wearing a Burqa, being hired in a similar position is highly unlikely (especially in today's current climate).

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Sharon  Lorimer
Sharon Lorimer Replied on June 28, 2011

I like this list.

4
Thomas  Sjolander
Director, PGS
Posted on June 23, 2011

It's political BS. Pandering to self-interest groups and media do-gooders. "Diversity" is best when it happens naturally not forced by government, shakedown hacks or other agenda driven opportunists.

Business owners and CEO's aren't running social clubs. Their bottom-line is priority not skin shade, sexual orientation or whether or not you have a catchy Spanish last name. I want the best and brightest for my business.

Let's be honest here - the purveyors of the diversity movement only care about gender, race, sexual preference or if you're Latino. If you are gay or black and you don't share the same politics as the one's on the Ivory Tower than you get kicked out of the protected class.

How many gay owned or black owned businesses are scrutinized for their lack of straight white guys on the rolls? Exactly! There is no substance to diversity programs or even diversity training. It's symbolic nonsense.

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John Staple
John Staple Replied on June 23, 2011

One of my favorite myths of all is the plight of the straight, white man who has somehow become the most downtrodden member of society at the hands of the nefarious diversity movement.

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Bob Gately
Bob Gately Replied on June 23, 2011

Thomas, if "Business owners and CEO's aren't running social clubs," then why do so many managers prefer to hire graduates of their own alma maters?

"I want the best and brightest" is often used to justify recruiting and hiring from the so called best schools yet alma maters are not predictors of job success.

I agree that, "There is no substance to diversity programs," if hiring managers hire for color, gender, race. etc.

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Michael Bethuy
CEO, Avant Garde Information Solutions, LLC
Posted on June 23, 2011

I have to agree with Thomas on this: "Business owners and CEO's aren't running social clubs. Their bottom-line is priority not skin shade, sexual orientation or whether or not you have a catchy Spanish last name. I want the best and brightest for my business."

Most business owners are first and foremost concerned with the success of their business and will hire anyone regardless of their demographic status insofar as the person is the most qualified for the job. This is at least true for smaller organizations. I do believe that hiring and promotions can become more biased (in any direction) the larger the organization. The smaller the company the more important any one person is, hence the incentive to focus on qualifications rather than preferences.

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Sharon  Lorimer
Sharon Lorimer Replied on June 26, 2011

Statistics show bias in hiring.

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Paulo Castro
Paulo Castro Replied on June 26, 2011

Michael, I believe that in a perfect world there would be no one paying attention to the color of our skin, to the origin of our names, to our sexual preferences, or to our religious and political interests.

It is true that most businesses want to hire the brightest, but the problem is that many of them believe the brightest cannot be anyone who is a minority, or someone with a particular sexual preference - more specifically, anyone who is different that whoever is hiring.

The greatest misconception is to believe that diversity will make a company better. I agree with Thomas that diversity needs to happen naturally not in response to government regulations. The strength of a company comes from the value of its employees and their ability to work towards a common business goal, not by having a multi-colored workforce. So I must agree with Larry Edmonds' comment elsewhere in this discussion.

Caty, this is a very interesting topic, thanks for sharing it.

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John Staple
Product Marketing Manager, SmartSupport
Posted on June 23, 2011

First, you really have to define what you mean by "diversity".

If you are referring to "diversity" as superficial factors like gender, ethnicity or sexual orientation, then I think that will lead you to a variety of misconceptions. The real diversity that companies should be looking for (but which is often rejected) is diversity of thought, but that definition leads to myth.

As for the misconception, we can start with the premise that if you hire a bunch of people of the same gender, age, sexual orientation, etc., you will have a group that is fairly homogeneous. This will likely produce a team of people who all think in unison and rarely have divergent points of view, but this is not guaranteed.

On the other hand, just because you hire a bunch of people of different gender, age, sexual orientation, etc., you will not necessarily have a group that is heterogeneous. Because again, if you are relying on superficial factors to tell you about who a person is or what a person thinks, you are making a huge mistake.

That being said, hiring people of diverse appearance will not result in the true diversity that is really (theoretically) desired. But as William stated above, the biggest myth of all is that business leaders actually WANT diversity. Far too many prefer their coterie who think exactly like they do and always say what they want to hear.

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Sharon  Lorimer
Sharon Lorimer Replied on June 26, 2011

I like your answer - innovation is based on diversity of thought.

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Kellie Auld
Kellie Auld Replied on June 26, 2011

I agree John. Diversity is really about being different - and I would expect that we have a large group of diversity in the workplace already - we just don't think of it that way. A different way of approaching business, a different idea about how to tackle a project. Unfortunately, too many businesses hire people that they think are 'just like them' and that can be a mistake. I don't think it's necessarily about sex, colour, religion, or any of the protected grounds in human rights; I think it's about actually looking for new and fresh ideas. To my way of thinking, the value in hiring some folks from other cultures, or disabled or other types of things, is to really gain a different view of the world. They are part of our society and I believe if they are capable of doing a job the company needs, they should be given equal opportunity. I don't think we should hire just to meet a quota...

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Sharon  Lorimer
Sharon Lorimer Replied on June 26, 2011

Hi Kellie,

I like your points about diversity coming from a big picture place. Quotas have worked to redress the balance in other parts of the world. If you are in a minority and you are systematically discriminated against and you end up with a smaller house, a smaller pension, lesser schools for your kids as a result of social discrimination or institutionalised discrimination - quotas look good from that point of view.

Sharon

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JB Bryant
JB Bryant Replied on July 1, 2011

Very well stated, John. One of my services is to help organizations develop a culture of what I call "profitable innovation." That requires diverse thinking (experiences, perspective, education, biases, etc.) within constraints (proper constraints ensure profitability).

Yes, I did say innovation requires diverse biases. That is important.

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The biggest problem with "diversity" at this point is that it is turning into an all purpose euphemism.
The word used to have a specific meaning, associated with variery and difference. Yet we now see such things as "diverse people want" or "a diverse person wants". How can an individual be diverse?
That usage is illogical, low on content, and annoying.

This is not just a grammatical quibble. If you really mean "non white" or "black" or "asian" it would be far better not to begin by establishihg that in your mind "non white" etc. needs a euphemism.
A euphemism is the substitution of a pleasing word for an unpleasant one. So the move to euphemism demonstrates that you find "non white", "black", "asian" etc. to be unpleasant.
If that is not what you had in mind I suggest you stop using unnecessary euphmisms.

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Thomas  Sjolander
Thomas Sjolander Replied on June 29, 2011

Right on Ian. Agree 100%. Diversity became in-vogue because of political correctness and pandering not for principled reasons. Everyone should be given a fair shot but useless social programs, whether private or government only derail reality and promote further discrimination.

Why are the words black, Asian or Indian treated as pejoratives? Because the do-gooder and guilt-ridden leftist whites who control the national narrative want it that way.

This country and the entire West for that matter lost it's way when honesty, facts, right and wrong, good and bad were all replaced with feel-good motives, symbolic maneuvering and political opportunism.

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Lynn Maria Thompson
President, Thompson Writing & Editing, Inc.
Posted on June 26, 2011

I think the biggest myth is that diversifying your workforce automatically makes it better. Remember the story of the Tower of Babel? People need to learn how to accept and work with others from different cultural backgrounds. It's not human nature to do so. Managers need to be trained on how to coach diverse workforces. Only then can the benefits of a diverse workforce be achieved.

And hiring someone solely for the color of their skin, national origin, sexual orientation, or religion is just as discriminatory as not hiring them for those reasons. The main standard of who gets hired should be which worker has the best skills to do the job. Hiring should have absolutely nothing to do with anything else; it's blindness to these factors that we should be seeking, not quotas.

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Bob Gately
Bob Gately Replied on June 28, 2011

Lynn, "hiring someone solely for the color of their skin, national origin, sexual orientation, or religion is just as discriminatory as not hiring them for those reasons" is an excellent observation.

"The main standard of who gets hired should be which worker has the best skills to do the job" will often lead to hiring less than successful employees. Employees do not need the best skills but they do need the skills that are required by the job.

"Hiring should have absolutely nothing to do with anything else; it's blindness to these factors that we should be seeking, not quotas." I agree except that hiring based on the best skills match is inadequate, see below.

Employers need to hire for:
1 - Culture Match
2 - Skills Match
3 - Job Match

Ignore any one of the three and the pool of acceptable applicants increases but the chances of hiring good employees decreases.

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Laura Schroeder
Global Talent Specialist, Workday
Posted on June 26, 2011

The biggest myth is that diversity refers only to race or gender or what have you. I think a better definition of diversity would include differences people have with regards to working style. For example, one person may do their best work in the morning, another in the evening after the kids go to bed. Someone may be more responsive by email, another person may prefer meeting face to face. Some people are uncomfortably outspoken, others are hilarious (or have no sense of humor whatsoever), others are serious and conscientious. All of these things impact how we work together, irrespective of gender, race, etc. And it is how we work through these differences while playing to people's strengths that represents the power and the challenge of diversity.

A truly diverse workforce is one that includes different races, genders and generations without giving them a second thought, where people work together around the world toward a common goal and Boomers roll up their sleeves next to new grads.

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Kellie Auld
Kellie Auld Replied on June 26, 2011

I believe the same thing Laura - I responded to John S. basically saying this.

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Paulo Castro
Paulo Castro Replied on June 26, 2011

Laura, like it or not, diversity is understood by most businesses as referring to race, religion, sexual orientation, etc. Not long ago, I was hired by a Fortune-500 company to develop web-based training entitled 'Training for Diversity' - was I surprised to see that the content they wanted me to include was mostly related to 'Discrimination' (race, sex, religion, gender, age, etc).

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Laura Schroeder
Laura Schroeder Replied on June 26, 2011

Thanks, Paulo, you're right about that. However, a Cornell University study also showed that diversity training focusing on these things doesn't lead to higher performance. What does lead to higher performance is leadership training that focuses on a broader definition of diversity. In other words, understanding and leveraging people's diverse strengths improves performance.

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JB Bryant
JB Bryant Replied on July 1, 2011

Very well stated, Laura. Your comments are spot on. I encourage you to take a look at my June 23 answer to this question (and the several replies under it) for more on this line of thinking.

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Ron Kubitz
Recruiting/Training Manager, Brayman Construction Corp.
Posted on June 23, 2011

The biggest myth in my opinion is usually when people say of their own organizations " of course we are a very diverse organization".

1
Mitchell Davis
Account Manager, PDI Ninth House
Posted on June 23, 2011

I think the biggest myth is that if an employee has global experience, it follows that they are skilled at intercultural communication. Intercultural understanding needs to be taught and supported in an organization and very few spend the time and resources.

I actually respectfully disagree with John, though. There are several studies which show that more diverse teams have more innovative and creative output and that homogenous teams tend to get stuck in ruts. The difference in success and failure of diversity is often how the teams are built, the leadership of the teams, the true commitment organizationally to diversity, and general communication and talent management and development initiatives.

Where I agree with John, though, is that diversity is larger than race or sex or ethnicity - diversity of thought and of ideas as well will make a big difference when building a successful team.

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Sharon  Lorimer
Sharon Lorimer Replied on June 26, 2011

I specialise in International human resource management and I agree that it doesn't mean that people are skilled at intercultural communication if they have global experience. I have products that help companies decide on the best person to send on an international assignment and whether the company is ready for globalisation.

1
John  Prpich
Owner/Employee, Talent Blueprint
Posted on June 26, 2011

@ Larry Edmonds

Interesting post regarding the myths you've identified. I'd like to comment on several of them.

Myth 1-I agree that there isn't equal opportunity, but racism is really only one small fraction of the issue, bias is the real problem here, not just racism.

Myth2- You focused on gender, white males, but that's a very large group. How about cultural bias or ethnic bias, not all white people are created equal. I wonder if you would feel the same if you were in another country. By the way, this is changing rapidly, just look at the growth of the Hispanic culture in this country, the average white male is going to be a lot like the dinosaur.

Myth 4- I'd be curious about the research, I've never come across any, however, that doesn't mean anything. I can tell you that diversity of thinking is very powerful and if you look at the great inventions you will find that they come from groups of diverse thinkers.
Myth 5- I have to disagree with you on this particular comment. I've worked with individuals from 122 countries, speaking 26 languages. I've worked with mixed groups of individuals and haven't experienced what you've described. I will say that the values are different from culture to culture. Deadlines are considered as important and as firm in either of the two cultures you described, I find this too be a bit of a stereotype.

Myth 7- I agree with your comment, but the example you used is perhaps not the best. Tattoos are socially acceptable, we've crossed that great divide, just look at television, especially the entertainment industry. We no longer believe that tatoos are just for sailors, they are considered socially acceptable personal expressions, albeit not for every industry.
A better example would be looks and body weight. There is clearly bias when it comes to these groups of individuals and that will never change, it's our bias and perceptions that guide as, shallow as that may seem.

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"Hania" (Anna) Whitfield
"Hania" (Anna) Whitfield Replied on June 26, 2011

John,
Perhaps Larry was generalizing the term white with its traditional meaning of Caucasian and American born. But you are right that this is changing. For example, one now sees news anchors and reporters who look clearly like they are from the other side of the world, yet speak with a perfect American accent.

But back to the question, I would add that there is also reverse racism occurring. The tragedy with having to legislate acceptance is that the change doesn't occur the day the law is passed. It takes at least 1-2 generations for acceptance to occur on a non-conscious level.

In my experience, a workplace that is run primarily by older generation Caucasian males has just as thick a glass ceiling and race bias as when they were young. The only difference is the law requires they hire a certain percentage of female and multi-cultural employees, and they can kill 2 birds with one stone when they hire a female who is also of another race or culture.

A sad way to hire, but you have to start somewhere to change cultural norms. Unfortunately, the laws continue even when acceptance is present - as in many younger companies who no longer look for color or gender when screening applicants, but are still forced to choose based on those percentages regardless of best candidate status.

Last note: Tattoos must be influential in determining a hire - just as a haircut, style of clothing, or other such style statements. When you hire for your company, you must hire someone who can reflect your company's image. The way a person dresses for their job interview is a direct reflection of their attitude toward the workplace. If tattoos are highly visible and numerous, no amount of conservative dress can hide them and will not fit in with the dress code of a more conservative business. So, yes, there has to be a bias in regard to highly visible tattoos just as one is biased toward an orange mohawk hairdo if it doesn't fit in with the image a company wants to reflect toward the customer/client. For a casual workplace, of course there is less concern.

1

One of the biggest misconceptions about "diversity" in the workplace is that it can be conscripted by driving the semi tractor trailer of "diversity" up the most displeasureable orifice of the workers.

It is all in the approach that one takes to bring about an understanding of "diversity" that either makes such a concept suceed or fail. The "Brute Force" or "Sledgehammer" approach is doomed to failure from the onset.

Most responsible workers approach their job interactions with other workers with reason and logic. They are apt to consider and give thought to ideas, such as "diversity", if they are approached in a non-combatitive, non-threatening, casual manner. Casual discussion in brief, logical, reasoned forums with inclusive input and interaction tends to work best.

People who work in the same environment daily, tend to understand others in their environment, regardless of their sex, religion, race, beliefs, etc., better than they do someone not in their line of work. But, that does not mean that they are not curious of differences, and, understanding and tolerant of those differences, when approached in a non-threatening manner.

It is the differences in all individuals that leads to the "spice" in the workplace, after all. If we were all the same, what a boring place our work environments would be. It is with that thought in mind that one must approach the concept of "diversity".

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John  Prpich
Owner/Employee, Talent Blueprint
Posted on June 23, 2011
  • Recommended by:

Bob, I don't agree that hiring for diversity means, hiring less qualified applicants, even though that's what may happen and often does with many organizations. You can find very qualified diversity candidates, you just have to look at little deeper.

Caty, for me the biggest myth is that there is going to be a ROI if you adopt diversity. Even though some will say that there are clear examples of financial impact they are few and far between. I've heard interviews from several CEO's, some of which were forced into becoming diverse because of stupidity and even after they've turned their organization around and are highly regarded for being diverse, will tell you that it had next to no impact on their organization.
I believe that our understanding and views about diversity are very skewed, and many of us need to start from scratch. Diversity in concept needs to be much more than just race or ethnicity, it has to encompass experience and thought, but this would probably be a stretch for most people. I think that affirmative action did more harm than good in the long run.

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Bob Gately
Bob Gately Replied on June 23, 2011

John, you know me too well to presume that my answer meant that diversity means hiring less qualified employees.

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Pamela Hongsakul
Pamela Hongsakul Replied on June 26, 2011

John, he was stating a myth!

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Sharon  Lorimer
Sharon Lorimer Replied on June 26, 2011

The global banking crisis showed how interdependent business and nations are and how global the system is. Diversity is a corporate responsibility. If you don't create equality through diversity you get social unrest!

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John  Prpich
Owner/Employee, Talent Blueprint
Posted on June 23, 2011
  • Recommended by:

Bob, your right, I was poking you in the ribs.

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Guy Farmer
Unconventional Training, Team Building & Effective Communication
Posted on June 23, 2011
  • Recommended by:

Great question Caty. I'd add that people often see diversity as something to address when someone has already slighted some other person or group or some other problem has arisen. The idea that people can relearn old thoughts and behaviors in one training or by being told what to do is prevalent in many workplaces. Diversity doesn't just happen, it takes concerted effort over time and attention to how people think and behave toward each other. One approach that seldom works is pretending that diversity isn't an issue or minimizing one's own inability to promote diversity by pointing at others who don't know how to do it either.

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JB Bryant
Principal Development Strategist, Strategic Alignment Group
Posted on June 23, 2011

The biggest myth is that diversity is a desirable or honorable end in itself.

If I'm looking for someone who is, say, analytical (to make the criteria simple for this example) and I have a "non-diverse" applicant who is highly qualified, what value is there in "looking deeper" for a "diverse"' candidate as John Prpich wrote ("You can find very qualified diversity candidates, you just have to look at little deeper")?

Let's say I have an analytical white man. In the interview he talks about his wife and kids. What value is there in my continuing to look for a man who mentions is boyfriend or husband?

Really, what is the value of diversity as an end in itself when have a lot on my plate I'm trying to run my business?

The same would be true if I have a highly qualified "diverse" candidate. There's no value in me spending time looking for a "non-diverse" candidate.

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Sharon  Lorimer
Sharon Lorimer Replied on June 26, 2011

What do you think is an honorable end?

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JB Bryant
JB Bryant Replied on June 27, 2011

Sharon:

An honorable end is that all people who wish to be employed are employed in organizations that can best utilize their skillsets, temperaments, passions, work styles, etc.

Focusing on diversity in an individual organization works completely contrary to that.

Another way of stating the same thing: An honorable end is that an employer hires the most qualified candidate for his or her organizational needs without regard to how "diverse" that causes the organization to be.

When I hire someone, I should never have to think about any of the categories that people label as "diversity" - race, gender, age, sexual orientation, physical disability, or whatever else someone might put under that label. I should simply hire the persona that best fits my needs in the organization.

Forcing me to focus on the other things, while intended to decrease or eliminate prejudice, will result in increased segmentation of our society or in organizations that are less effective than they could otherwise be.

People should just be people and should be hired or not hired based on the value they can contribute.

Trying to force anything but that is is either self-defeating (perpetuating the very problem it is trying to correct) or has collateral negative effects.

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Bob Gately
Bob Gately Replied on June 28, 2011

Diversity's strength is in the increased size of the applicant pool from which we can select future successful employees. Since job success is not limited to any one group, a larger pool of applicant means a better chance of hiring good employees. This presupposes the employer knows how to identify future successful employees from the short list of qualified to be hired job finalists. Most employers don't know how to do it so they hire from same limited pool of applicants and continue to hire all sorts of employees from the occasional superstar to the all too frequent marginal employee.

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Sharon  Lorimer
Sharon Lorimer Replied on June 28, 2011

Thanks for your response JB. I get what you feel and it is important to address.
Values like diversity, although not yet being measured properly, do improve organisations and people. When I set up my own company I spent time reviewing my values so that I understood myself better and the type of person I thought worked best for the company I created.

I have been in organisations that don't promote values and the culture becomes dysfunctional. I think diversity is a value which promotes teamwork, communication skills, and expands our experiences unlocking creativity and personal and professional growth. Hopefully we will all do a better job at explaining why and showing what happens when you use diversity in the right way to boost ROI.

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JB Bryant
JB Bryant Replied on June 28, 2011

Bob -

I have trouble reconciling your logic, but I would love further assistance in doing so. Two things in particular stand out in what you wrote. They are in your first two sentences, but I want to take them in reverse order:

= 1 = "Since job success is not limited to any one group, a larger pool of applicant means a better chance of hiring good employees."

I'm concerned about your statement "any one group." Grouping in the way I think you are using the term means segmenting, or segregating, according to a criteria that is not necessary to fulfilling the job. This is the part of diversity focus that I find most troublesome.

Here's the crux - If I understand your use of the term "group" here, you are suggesting we add a layer of profiling to the application pool that has nothing to do with job skills. As an employer, I should search for someone who is technically qualified, has the right amount of experience, is willing to work for the right amount of compensation, has soft skills that seem like they will enhance success, and is also "X" (where X=Something that has nothing to do with the position).

Am I correct? If so, how does that help my business needs? And what about the highly qualified people who aren't also "X," since they are just as qualified as the person that is?

= 2 = "Diversity's strength is in the increased size of the applicant pool from which we can select future successful employees."

I don't quite get that. I select the most qualified from the entire pool of applicants that fits my needs. The first perfect fit I find gets hired.

If I don't find a "perfect" fit before I run out of time, at some point I hire the first acceptable fit.

How does focusing on diversity increase the size of my applicant pool? My pool is already everyone that applied and is qualified to do the job. Please explain.

jb

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JB Bryant
JB Bryant Replied on June 28, 2011

Sharon -

I appreciate your reply and welcome your comments on my response to Bob above as well.

The thing is, "diversity" to me feels like an artificial construct in the context of this conversation. I alluded to that a little my reply to Bob.

For me, when I look for an employee, the complete set of possible hires comes from everyone who meets the qualifications of the job. I simply don't care about whether a person is or is not . I will hire them without regard to that if they are qualified.

Segmenting it further than that ultimately uses some artificial, unrelated label to exclude one person as much as it uses the same artificial, unrelated label to include another person.

What am I missing?

jb

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Sharon  Lorimer
Sharon Lorimer Replied on June 29, 2011

I think it is good that you feel that you hire without bias. I also feel that I choose people without reference to sex, race, age etc... Do you analyse your hires to see who you've hired?

Using diversity as a tool enables us to ensure that groups of people don't end up marginalised and repeating old patterns that reinforce the "group". I have experienced living in different cultures and although I found it uncomfortable to be the "dumb" kid at first, once I learned the new culture I found that I understood my own culture more. It helped me to undo some of the limitations that I experienced growing up in a homogenous culture.

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JB Bryant
JB Bryant Replied on June 29, 2011

Sharon -

Hmmm.... Do I analyze my hires after the fact? Well I do, yes. I analyze to see whether they have done well in their jobs, fit well into the company, contributed value to the organization and to the customers.

But I think you mean do I analyze them to see whether they include a diverse range of "marginalized" groups. The problem with doing that as a regular practice is that it forces my brain to artificially classify people in ways that have nothing to do with what they were hired to do. I don't want to train my brain to think that way for the reasons I listed in my reply to Bob.

I have hired probably 100-120 people in my career. To be clear, I am talking about people I personally chose to work directly for me.

As I mentally think back through the list, I (a white man in his mid-40's who has been hiring and managing for 20+ years) can think of a significant number of African Americans, women, and 50+ people whom I hired. In fact, I can think of a few who were all three of those. I remember one black man who "seemed homosexual" when I interviewed him and came out of the closet a number of years later. I fondly remember Pat, an openly white lesbian in her mid-50's and president of the local NOW chapter, who worked for me until she passed away about 10 years ago. She and I were wonderful friends as well as co-workers. My son regularly weeded her garden and mowed for her because she was also physically disabled. Without trying I can think of 14 African Americans I've hired (men and women), which exceeds the their race's ration of our country's population. I may have hired more, but I don't want to dwell on it.

Do these qualify?

Of course, here I go creating these artificial distinctions. They didn't matter in the interview and they didn't matter on the job. They had noting to do with me hiring these people, promoting them, setting their salaries and bonuses, or anything else. Technical skills, soft skills, performance, contribution of value, desire for growth and improvement, personality/cultural fit, etc. Those are what got and preserved their jobs.

Now, regarding the type of analysis I DO do (viz., ow well I hired based on business needs), I've done very well. I have only ever hired 4 individuals who turned out to be less-than-desirable employees, and those 4 were all "unskilled workers" hired in the first 5 years of my career. I have never let any others go, though I have switched employers myself a couple of times and it's possible I didn't see some to the end.

Bottom line: I hire very well, I do it based upon business needs, I treat employees very well, and it turns out that my employees have been relatively "diverse" according to the modern, irrelevant distinctions.

I can't tell you have many employees I have hired who had red hair, hazel eyes, or moles on their left cheeks. Those distinctions would be equally artificial and unrelated.

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Sharon  Lorimer
Sharon Lorimer Replied on June 29, 2011

It sounds like you have a lot of experience. How did it affect you to know so many different types of people?

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JB Bryant
JB Bryant Replied on June 29, 2011

Sharon:

That's a very good question. Because I'm also an active and committed biblically conservative Christian (since my early 20's), I guess getting to know and love all types of people has been a part of most of my life.

My intention isn't to preach here, but please bear with the following brief (and I believe relevant) explanation as to how my faith has affected me this way.
----
Jesus spent time getting to know and love prostitutes, thieves, and sexually promiscuous people PLUS poor, uneducated, disabled, and sick PLUS those of other religions PLUS His own disciples.

But even Jesus didn't seem to seek out these "diverse" groups. He simply encountered them in the course of life and got to know them because they crossed His path.
----
So that is the model I live by. I take that into non-business life as well as business life. Faith aside, it simply makes sense. Diversity will encounter us at the proper proportion without us forcing or seeking it.

The ratio of qualified applicants who belong to CATEGORY X and apply for JOB Y will equal the ratio of the entire population of qualified job seekers who belong to CATEGORY X and are interested in JOB Y. That means that ignoring the irrelevant categories is the only fair way to hire.

Trying to force anything other than that is, as I've been saying, artificial and stacks the deck against those who are not of CATEGORY X.

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Sharon  Lorimer
Sharon Lorimer Replied on June 30, 2011

Interesting post. I think religious is a good way to teach people, but people understand different things from the same teaching. We can use more than one way to reach the same end. Some people use religion, politics, education, their looks, and others their abilities in sports or the arts to break down social boundaries.

My favourite story is the life of Picasso. He felt as an artist that he wasn't interested in politics... but when he saw the bomibing of the Basques in Spain in the 1937 he changed his mind and made his best work of art ever - Guernica. Profound for all of us. I think that politicians who make quotas are trying to help too.

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JB Bryant
JB Bryant Replied on June 30, 2011

Sharon:

I'm enjoying the discussion with you.

I don't doubt that quota setting and many other methods result from good intentions. But it comes down to what makes the most reasonable sense - based upon both logic and observation.

As far as I can reason, it is illogical to introduce irrelevant classifications into hiring decisions.

And as far as I can discern, it is illogical to assume that a nation-wide estimated ratio of a particular category of people will equal the ratio of that category applying for a particular job at a particular location.

For instance (I'm fabricating this from whole cloth) if 27% of the entire US population is naturally bald, a special interest group could discover that baldies like me are underrepresented in the workforce - the "Tortured Tonsured," we might be called :-).

From that, someone might say that 27% of all new hires should be be hairless. The problem is, only 2% of the applicants to my company for my open position are skinheads. There's no way I can fill my quota. Maybe I can create a website for bald job seekers, and perhaps I can even hold networking events for people who reflect light off the tops of their heads.

Meanwhile, a highly-qualified full-haired applicant doesn't get the job. As it turns out, only 12% of my local population is bald, and only 2% of them are job seekers with the right qualifications and interest to apply for my job opening. And throughout all this mess, several non-bald applicants perhaps continue to have trouble paying their bills.

Yes, I do believe nearly every attempt at equalitarianism grows out of a genuine passion to improve the lives of people. It's just that I also believe passion can blind us so that we can't recognize when our passionate solutions are either self-defeating or cause collateral damage.

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Sharon  Lorimer
Sharon Lorimer Replied on June 30, 2011

I don't think that the world works without bias. Here's an example of how the world works based on the experience of women.

I am a women and I see that there are not that many women in senior positions in the world. In school I'm the top of my class. If I want a senior job in a company and I'm available for one then there shouldn't be any barriers to my career progression. I believe that the process is objective based on natural selection of the best fit. But no matter how well I do, I am still asked when or if I have children, and what I wear matters! If it is unbiased, then when did I start to get dumber and the rise of a man to the top is justifiable unbiased because they are getting smarter.

It is not a logical argument to exclude bias (based on societal norms) from the explanation of the outcome. The idea that women are expected to rear children and the social pressure applied to women, like scorn, exclusion, pressure from families or judgements from others can lead to women feeling that they have to have children. It isn't a process of natural selection it's a process of social selection based on the rulers idea of what they want society to look like! I feel for the baldies - you should hire some. LOL

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JB Bryant
JB Bryant Replied on July 1, 2011

Sharon -

But what I discover that the main reason fewer baldies are in senior positions is that they prefer to be bench chemists working for Rogaine?

Or what if it's because I'm counting wrong? Maybe there would be more bald CEOs if it weren't for the Hazel-Eyed and Left-Handed special interest groups realizing that their people were underrepresented? What if those groups became competitors to my efforts for the Tortured Tonsured?

I think these are the sorts of problems that arise when irrelevant categories are forced. I guess the ideal CEO in today's thinking might be a mixed African American/Hispanic lesbian who is physically disabled and over the age of 45. Oh, and she should probably have some business skills. And she should want to be CEO (but if not, we can help her feel like a societal victim until she wants it).

But if that is the case, what about all the people of are only part of that or none of that at all?

It all gets so messy. It is all borne out of good intentions and the desire to be equitable, but it just gets messy!

Instead of changing "rules" (I'm using that word loosely) to overcome bias, we should change people. Good people make good rules, but good rules can never make good people.

I know changing people is a slower process, but it has far better results. To do that, we need to abandon the idea that right and wrong, good and bad, true and false are all grey. American culture (yes, I'm only thinking of America right now) needs to re-prioritize in order to quit spiraling downward.

Meanwhile, I'll continue hiring people who apply and are qualified to fill the job without regard to any of the other categories. And along the way, I'm certain I and my companies will continue to have diverse exposure, a positive corporate culture, and be profitable.

jb

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Sharon  Lorimer
Sharon Lorimer Replied on July 1, 2011

I understand how you feel about the stats, but the message is not to create an idea of a CEO other than a person who has the right business skills. People are being systemalically stopped from processing because of who they are. Laws can create entire industries and can change people, society and culture. New laws are designed to redress old laws that create environments that don't work for our societies and businesses today.

I understand that laws and their enforcement don't always work, but I also know that people do change because they are required to. For example, good companies create policies for employees that reflect the laws and therefore change people through education.

I am not suggesting that we create a victim culture, but I am not ignoring "real" attitudes to others which do create bias and exclusion. Attitudes that are institutionalised and have in the passed been legalised!

I understand that you feel that you are not being acknowledges as a good person who hires for ability. Perhaps if you felt that the law wasn't concerned with people who already hire without bias, but with others that don't you could appreciate the need for the law, and how it helps people who are treated unfairly because of who they are.

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Sharon  Lorimer
Sharon Lorimer Replied on July 1, 2011

LOL - progressing - not processing

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JB Bryant
JB Bryant Replied on July 1, 2011

Sharon - Again, I enjoy our conversation, and I'm not unsympathetic to what you have written. I am just not certain that changing people from the outside (laws) changes people from the inside (character). If not, then external change can't be as effective.

Incidentally, I do have a little experience with being on the receiving end of bias. In 1989 I moved to Memphis for grad school. I was a long-time Blues fan and wanted to see Beale Street. I had only been in town a couple of days, moved there from a small WV town, and didn't know my way around. I asked a neighbor for directions, but I took wrong turns and got lost. I was in the Projects, no doubt about it. I stopped at a 7/11 to ask directions to Beale Street. The people there played around with me for a little while, then one man spoke up. He seemed sincere, intelligent, and helpful. He gave me directions, which I wrote down, and followed them to a T - all the way into Arkansas! It took me hours to make my way back home and I never got to see Beale Street that day. I was certain that I was victim of discrimination that day - whether it was racial, because I spoke differently, because I dressed nicely, or because had a decent car, I don't know. But it was clear that the misdirection was intentional.

[Incidentally, a week later I read about a murder/robbery in the same 7/11].

That experience affected me deeply. I had never actually seen what I concluded was racism so up-close. It caused me to emote in reverse - to hurt for so many blacks who were discriminated against in even greater ways by whites.

During my 8 years in Memphis, I spent a good bit of time acquiring a number of black friends and helping my white friends throw off as much latent racism as possible. I also regularly wrote "letters to the editor" in the Commercial Appeal (the local paper) - small treatises about racism which I signed with the pen-name "White Brother." I not only spoke to white people in my writings; I also expressed concerns to the black community about what I felt were unhealthy choices and patterns at the macro level (cultural, government, etc.) that were harming them in the end. But no matter what I wrote, I always wrote with a lump in my throat. As I said, my brief experience (that wasn't the last one) impacted me deeply.

But this is how I believe real change is made. I have no delusion that I made some major impact on racism in Memphis. Perhaps some individual readers did change - based upon responses to my letters it seems some did. But I was just one 25 year old busy graduate student with a family.

Finally, you wrote "I understand that you feel that you are not being acknowledges as a good person who hires for ability." Actually, I don't share my experiences because I feel I need to be acknowledged. I do what I believe is right because it is right. I share my personal stories because I think there are many, many people like me. I've known them. I HAVE known some people who wouldn't hire some "diverse" individuals, but those have been rare exceptions. Not that there aren't individual instances of discrimination, but I haven't seen them as anything approaching common. Based on my own observations, I really don't think that the "diverse" individuals are in the candidate pools in large numbers and/or they haven't shown themselves to be well qualified and/or they haven't interviewed well.

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Sharon  Lorimer
Sharon Lorimer Replied on July 1, 2011

I am sorry that you experienced racism. I have also experienced bias from different people. Not a nice experience.

I don't think you can get passed the stats; we all live in a culture which was created by laws and we can verify the power of these laws to shape a society in the outcome measured by the society.

I agree that storytelling, activism, empathy, and sharing are all powerful tools to transform people's feelings. We need more than the laws to change behaviour. I work with people who move abroad, which is a life changing experience, but not everyone can come out of their culture or wants to leave it. Some of their experiences would be useful for bias people to experience.

Are we are talking about moral and emotional programs that can help people have better lives?

I wanted to acknowledge your feeling that you are unbiased with my comment that you aren't being acknowledge. I should have put it more directly. I feel that you are telling me that you aren't biased, and you resent the idea that a blunt instrument like a law can make everything equal. Is this closer to what you are trying to say?

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JB Bryant
JB Bryant Replied on July 1, 2011

Sharon:

You wrote: "I wanted to acknowledge your feeling that you are unbiased with my comment that you aren't being acknowledge. I should have put it more directly. I feel that you are telling me that you aren't biased, and you resent the idea that a blunt instrument like a law can make everything equal. Is this closer to what you are trying to say?"

Closer, though I'm not resentful. History and reason make me doubtful, that's all. And I don't just doubt its efficacy, I think it's like mopping up the bathroom floor while the toilet s still overflowing. I am concerned that the additional mess the legal system will make while it cleans up another mess will distract attention from correcting the real source(s) of the problem.

Yes, I believe I'm largely unbiased, but I'm also human. There are people I have trouble being around on a regular basis. Most often, that has to do with a personality trait.

For instance, I have enjoyed our discussion because we acknowledge each others' thoughts and respond directly to them. It is difficult for me to spend much time with someone who will not reason with another, who attacks or scoffs at different thinking, who loudly believes something s/he can't defend - even if s/he believes what I believe!

This is part of my humanity. It's not what people would normally consider a bias, but in truth it is. I may not hire someone if I notice that trait in the interview. I may not promote an employee as readily if I observe that quality. I am human, and that's reality. If I were completely free of bias, I would recognize that some people simply don't have the mental capacity, influence, or articulation to do that and I wouldn't get so perturbed by it.

But I enjoy people who think differently from me as much as I enjoy people who think like me. Both help me grow and find wholeness.

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Laura Schroeder
Laura Schroeder Replied on July 1, 2011

JB - I think that's how most people feel, they just want the best candidate without the headache of longer searches in pursuit of someone possibly less qualified in the name of diversity. To be devil's advocate, I would say that companies that have really put a stake in the ground around diversity - i.e., spending that extra time looking for the best diverse people and actively developing them - tend to have higher performance than more homogeneous companies.

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Pamela Hongsakul
Leadership & Media Advisor, Publisher, Hongsakul Media
Posted on June 26, 2011
  • Recommended by:

Hiring for diversity does not necessarily mean that you have to go find people and/or drop standards in order to let in the rabble. The biggest problem for diverse people is simply the barriers based on unrealized or denied prejudice.

If everyone would just clear their mind and appreciate every applicant for the special skills, personality, and experience that they bring to the table, and quit thinking that everyone has to be alike, then that would solve the problem pronto. With time, the numbers would catch up and we'd have a diversified society in every sector.

Diverse people just want an open door to walk through, that's all.

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Bob Gately
Bob Gately Replied on June 28, 2011

Pamela, you said it very well.

A business associate of mine, Stan, helped a Lincoln dealership screen the applicants for the Customer Service Manager (CSM) position. He worked closely with the owners to develop a description of what they wanted in their new CSM. After the six finalists were assessed he met with the two owners. Before sharing the Placement Report with them he ask them to rank the job finalists from 1 to 6, 1 being the person to get the job offer. Mary was ranked #6, the last one to get a job offer if at all.

Mary had the best match to what the owners wanted in their CSM. The two owners said, "But Stan we have never had a woman in that position or a minority." Mary received the only job offer and she accepted it. The owners were very pleased with her job success.

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In my opinion, it is that the federal government and/or state governments have created laws that require companies over a certain size to have a diverse workforce.

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Bob Gately
Bob Gately Replied on June 28, 2011

Yes, government agencies often presume that a non-diverse workforce is evidence of illegal discrimination in the hiring process.

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Statistics still prove gender inequality at all levels. What percentage of women are in politics? How many of them are racialized women?
Fighting prejudice and discrimination attacks a peron's self-esteem and wears the individual down. Add to this mix lack of opportunities when people are hand picked for certain stepping-stone openings.

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Lynn Maria Thompson
Lynn Maria Thompson Replied on June 26, 2011

I'm still trying to wrap my mind around what constitutes a "racialized" woman.

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Sharon  Lorimer
Sharon Lorimer Replied on June 30, 2011

I like your post. Statistics are important.

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It's pretty interesting how many posts talk about "our country". It shows we still live in very closed cultures, even while we are moving more towards a global workforce.
Implementing Diversity in our workforce is to recognise the fact that the world is made up of diverse people and we should make full use of that.

Rather than playing towards our biases, we can recognise our own preconceived ideas about people and try to break through them. Even more, we can develop policies which are friendlier to a wider group of people, rather than geared towards a very narrow definition of who is a good player or who belongs or who we can identify with.

And we're not just talking about minorities here. If we lock women out of our workforce through our policies and attitudes, then we are cutting down the available talent by half!

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JB Bryant
JB Bryant Replied on June 30, 2011

Karen:

You wrote "Even more, we can develop policies which are friendlier to a wider group of people, rather than geared towards a very narrow definition of who is a good player or who belongs or who we can identify with."

Would you provide an example of the sort of policy you are thinking of?

jb

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Bob Gately
Owner, Gately Consulting
Posted on June 28, 2011
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Karn, your comment, "And we're not just talking about minorities here. If we lock women out of our workforce through our policies and attitudes, then we are cutting down the available talent by half!" should be printed on cardboard, highlighted in yellow, laminated, and taped to the desktops of all hiring managers so that they can read it daily if not more frequently.

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Sharon  Lorimer
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John  Prpich
Owner/Employee, Talent Blueprint
Posted on June 26, 2011
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@Hania

The idea of reverse racism is interesting. So here we have a group of individuals who have been discriminated against based on their race or culture and when the tables turn, the other group yells reverse discrimination. So what does that tell us?

Racism will never go away and for one simple reason, the values of one generation are passed on to the next. Just look at the Klu Klux Klan, here they are still in this day and age as strong as ever. I hear people saying that the generations behind us are color blind and I have experienced that in many forms, but at the end of the day, very little will change.

We've lived in a country that is typically run by old Caucasian males, now, we may believe that this is going to change, but we will have to wait and see. Does the concept of one generation preparing the next, also apply to corporations, will it be business as usual. Clearly there are more diverse organizations and CEO's, however, they appear to be the minority so I'm not convinced that the old boys network is going to go anywhere, at least for a while.

About tattoos, lets' remember one important point. Yes you do have to hire employees that reflect your company's image, but more importantly, you have to hire individuals that reflect your customer base, if not, you may not have any customers, so it really goes both ways.
The way the person dresses for an interview is a direct reflection of who they are, not who you would like them to be. We have to step back and realize that the world is changing and that the way we perceive people and business today is very different.

Based on your comment, you would never have hired Mark Zuckerberg, he wears t-shirts and sandals. Of course there are multiple examples just like this, so the question becomes, what's really important and what was important yesterday, may not be as important today. Maybe it's time to stop judging individuals by what they wear and what they look like and focus on who they are, if we don't, aren't we also discriminating.
It's quite the slippery slope and there are no easy answers. We take our ques in business from what happens in society and that's changing quite rapidly, the real question is, are we ready to accept that type of change.

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"Hania" (Anna) Whitfield
"Hania" (Anna) Whitfield Replied on June 26, 2011

Yes, I would not have hired Mark Zuckerberg, but then he would not have applied for a position in my field, and in his industry, his style of dress is the norm and totally acceptable, so you missed my point.

I do not judge people by what they wear, but just as you would not expect a t-shirt and sandals at a formal wedding, nor would I expect the same for a conservative job interview. I hope that clarifies my viewpoint a bit better. I bet Mark Zuckerberg would put on a tuxedo to be his friend's best man in a formal wedding if it were expected.

And while I continue to experience gender bias, I must say that I have noticed a positive change in my decades of experience - especially when I compare my experience to my mother's. I do not expect to see it disappear in my lifetime, but I have seen a significant decrease in bias, esp. in the younger generation.

And, yes, the old ways will die off. It took women 100 years to get the law passed in 1920 to allow their vote. Would you ever see a discussion question regarding women's right to vote today? No. The issue is dead and the right is totally accepted.

So maybe it takes a century ... gotta start somewhere.

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Lynn Maria Thompson
Lynn Maria Thompson Replied on June 26, 2011

Exactly, Hania. When did people start expecting a business to accommodate the needs of the employees? Everybody these days seems to think that someone owes them a job, and the only ones who don't seem to have any "rights" any more are the people who put their capital, their lives, and their reputations on the line by opening a business. If somebody doesn't get the job, well certainly it's nothing wrong with them, it must be racism, or sexism, or ageism, or any other of the many "-isms" people use for excuses.

When will we all just grow up, stop whining, and get over ourselves? Just do what you do, do it well, network, do business honestly, and you'll be okay. Stop worrying about what somebody else has that you don't, set your sights on what you really want in life, and pursue it. Can't find a job? Make one of your own. Find out what image you need to project in your chosen field, and dress appropriately for it. The dress code for a tattoo artist is vastly different from that for a banker. Don't expect the workplace to bend over backwards to accommodate you just because your parents and teachers all did your whole life in the educational system. Nobody ever promised you that life would be fair.

All this hype over diversity just strikes me as another of the causes du jour that are used to keep people stirred up, dissatisfied, and distracted from what they need to be doing. Now, if y'all will excuse me, I have some work to do! ;-)

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"Hania" (Anna) Whitfield
"Hania" (Anna) Whitfield Replied on June 26, 2011

Uh, oh, Lynn, you said "y'all!" I guess that might bias the readers :-)

I've written several blog posts about hiring, but here's one that follows some of your comments: http://wp.me/pWYJp-ea

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Sharon  Lorimer
Sharon Lorimer Replied on June 30, 2011

LOL - I wish it was easy to figure out who you are.

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JB Bryant
JB Bryant Replied on July 1, 2011

Lynn and Hania -

I like you ladies!

Dang, I wish I had a senior leadership position I could put you into. Well, shoot, you probably wouldn't apply anyway. You're happy where you are!

jb

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"Hania" (Anna) Whitfield
"Hania" (Anna) Whitfield Replied on July 1, 2011

Happy where I am because I work for myself after being laid off from a failing corporation where the old senior execs sit on a bulletproof glass ceiling. Hmmm... that's part of why they are failing, ya think?!

Now as a consultant, I only have to tap on the glass if I discover a prospective client is biased - and the fun part is I can walk away!

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John  Prpich
Owner/Employee, Talent Blueprint
Posted on June 26, 2011
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@Hania
I didn't miss your point, I understood what you were saying. What I was suggesting is that the standards or norms for selection are changing. The traditional paradigms are quickly dissipating, we no longer tend to judge a book by it's cover, however, if we do, we miss a big opportunity. Perhaps the concept of a conservative job interview needs to go away, especially if it blinds us to the potential we seek.

I'm not certain what Mark would wear to his friends wedding, whose to say but he himself. I agree with you that there have been changes in gender bias, but it's moving at a snails pace. Look what recently happened at Wal Mart and the suit that was brought on by the female employees who felt they were discriminated against when it came to pay raises and opportunities, they make up 72% of the Wal Mart workforce. The Supreme Court ruled 5/4 in favor of Wal Mart, is that justice or merely politics, and is that another example of severe gender bias, quite frankly, I felt this was another example of who really runs this country, big business.

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Bob Gately
Bob Gately Replied on June 28, 2011

John, didn't the SCOTUS rule that a class action lawsuit was not appropriate? Female employees past and present can still file their own lawsuits.

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I got to lead Diversity&Inclusion in one multinational company and before even starting I have asked employees what is D&I. Answers were mostly funny such as- it's when we get along with our colleagues or it's when we don't fight among each other...Just 23% answered like when people from different nations or religions or different skin color work together and those differences do not present a problem.
So practically, how can people respect something they do not know so much about?
It's on leaders to show what this is and how people and organizations can benefit out of it.
Yes, it's true, many companies are just "pretending" to respect this, but this is just sad.
We still have a lots of racism, minorities do not have equal opportunities and yes, when coming to promoting women to high level positions there is always a question "but she might get pregnant and go long maternity leave", etc.
So, I guess it's a bit better then 30, 40 years ago, but when it comes to Diversity we still have long road in front of us.

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During this Pride Week, I was invited to Toronto's City Hall for the launching of Access Alliance's community-based research project report "Working Rough, Living Poor" which is all about the impact on health of racialized groups who experience discrimination and live in the Jane and Finch area of Toronto and must combat employment and income insecurities, food and housing insecurities, harassment and discrimination at work, jobs without benefits, unsafe working conditions, temp agencies that keep workers on call, unstable jobs or piece-meal jobs.
How does this impact their health and well-being? Many negative outcomes are described such as low self-esteem, high blood pressure, addictions, exhaustion, leg pain, stress, ulcers, diabetes, disempowerment, family tension etc. What happens to an individual who faces precarious employment with no opportunities for benefits and good wages from their teen years right into their old age?

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Bob Gately
Owner, Gately Consulting
Posted on June 23, 2011

Hiring for diversity means hiring less qualified applicants.

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Aaron Lintz
Aaron Lintz Replied on June 23, 2011

Can you clarify your response please? Is your answer supposed to be a myth, or is this your own opinion?

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Rosamond Bovey
Rosamond Bovey Replied on June 23, 2011

I believe Bob is referencing a very common myth in the American public and in the corporate sector.

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Bob Gately
Bob Gately Replied on June 23, 2011

Aaron, yes my answer is the myth.

The right people to hire are not identifiable by eye or ear.

Talent is what separates the best from the rest and talent is not limited to certain races or one gender or graduates of the best schools.

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Sharon  Lorimer
Sharon Lorimer Replied on June 26, 2011

I wonder if people are discouraged to get qualifications if they are already disadvantaged?

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Bob Gately
Bob Gately Replied on June 28, 2011

Sharon, excellent question, and perhaps the answer is yes.

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Sharon  Lorimer
Sharon Lorimer Replied on June 28, 2011

Thanks Bob. The skills gap needs to be addressed. Our school systems need to work with employers to address the gap and employers need to help kids enjoy work experience.

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Bob Gately
Owner, Gately Consulting
Posted on June 23, 2011
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Michael, hiring the most qualified is a sure fire way not to hire the best employees.

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Michael Bethuy
Michael Bethuy Replied on June 23, 2011

I am interested in your statement. Can you clarify? I would have thought you agreed with my statement given your statements above. I suppose there is some room to dispute what "qualified" means, as it often doesn't boil down to a resume checklist. If it did we wouldn't need interviews or recruiting companies. Is that what you meant by your statement?

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Bob Gately
Bob Gately Replied on June 26, 2011

Hello Michael, we all have a problem understanding others ideas when we are exposed to short messages about important issues.

Most qualified usually means the following.
1. Most educated ... more education means better job performance
2. Most experienced ... more experience means better job performance
3. Graduate of the best schools or the right schools ... schools create better job performance
4. Highest GPA from an acceptable school, see #3 above.
5. Works for the right employer, i.e., we steal other employers' star employees
6. After all interviews the applicant is rated #1 ... and is the right person to hire about 20% of the time.

There is a lot more to job success that what is learned from the 6 items above.

Read the article at the following web page for a more in-depth discussion of how to hire successful employees, i.e., how to hire high-potential employees. There are two conditions, 3A and 3B, when competent people should “not be” hired or selected for a position. Avoiding 3A and 3B will go a long way towards creating a successful workforce.

http://www.corpu.com/weekly/article/hiring-high-potential-talent/

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Michael Bethuy
Michael Bethuy Replied on June 27, 2011

Thank you for the excellent reply Bob. I will definitely read this article.

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Sharon  Lorimer
Sharon Lorimer Replied on June 30, 2011

I just read the article that you posted :-). I thought I would share my amusement on how Sue Todd described you, "It was that third answer about hiring the “best and brightest” that sent Bob into a writing frenzy."

I'm enjoying your vigour.

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