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Who else is considered a social media scientist like Dan Zarella?

There are a lot of social media/business experts who talk about "why" you should do social media/social business. Dan Zarella uses research and metrics to determine how to be effective in social media. Is there anyone else like him?

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6
Neil Glassman
Principal Marketing Strategist, WhizBangPowWow
Posted on Nov. 9, 2011

Most of what is presented as social media "science" or "research" is survey data lacking the basics of scientific method, such as controls and vetting of data sources. These are certainly interesting surveys, but I would not lockstep my social media initiatives to their recommendations.

Note that my comments are not intended to imply that those cited in this conversation do not offer actionable information and analysis. They do. But scientifically conducted research on social media is generally not what's made available on the infographic du jour.

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Craig Rosenberg
Craig Rosenberg Replied on Nov. 9, 2011

I agree. The answers given so far are NOT what I was looking for.

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Brian Vellmure (@BrianVellmure)
Principal/Founder, Initium LLC
Posted on Nov. 9, 2011

Craig,

Dr. Michael Wu IS a scientist and applies scientific analysis to what happens inside of Social Networks, mostly Lithium's Communities. Let me know if you need an introduction.

Also, check out Valdis Krebs on Social Network Analysis.

Let me know what else you are looking for and I more than happy to help.

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Scott Albro
Scott Albro Replied on Nov. 9, 2011

Michael and Valdis both take a very scientific approach and are worth tracking.

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Joe Chernov
Joe Chernov Replied on Nov. 11, 2011

+1 for Michael Wu.

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Maddie Grant
chief social strategist, SocialFish
Posted on Nov. 10, 2011

Here are some real ones:

https://www.gsb.stanford.edu/facseminars/events/marketing/documents/mktg_03_0... (Duncan Watts)

http://cs.stanford.edu/people/jure/pubs/lim-icdm10.pdf (Jaewon Yang and Jure Lescovec) - links are studies on online influence.

With, like, real data and stuff. :)

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Scott Albro
Scott Albro Replied on Nov. 10, 2011

Good answer and thank you for bringing some reason to this discussion.

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Craig Rosenberg
Craig Rosenberg Replied on Nov. 10, 2011

Awesome.

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Scott Albro
Founder, CEO, Focus
Posted on Nov. 9, 2011

The answer to this question depends on how you define science. I like to think of science as a search for repeatable, observable patterns. Very few people, if any are doing this in the social media space including Dan Zarella. If you take a broader view of science and define it in a way that looks similar to research, there are a lot of people who can be called social media researchers. Some of the better ones include:

Clay Shirky
Danah Boyd
Vladis Krebs
Mark Pesce
Michael Wesch
Mimi Ito
Alessandro Acquisti
Cameron Marlow
Genevieve Bell
Elizabeth Churchill

Finally, people who anoint themselves scientists by including the word scientist in their title usually aren't scientists at all. And the social media uber-analysts definitely aren't scientists.

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Chris Bailey
Chris Bailey Replied on Nov. 11, 2011

I couldn't agree more with you Scott. I sat through one of Hubspot's "Science of..." webinars and waited patiently for, well, some semblance of science. What I heard were statistics and methodologies that any marketer should be using. Not an ounce of what I would call science. Since then, I've had a problem with how Dan and Hubspot try to fool what seems like a very impressionable crowd. And incidentally, I won't ever use Hubspot for that very reason.

Sorry to turn this into an Anti-Zarella rant, but when true scientists - such as the ones you've listed - are out there doing good research, it pains me when pretenders with no credentials belittle their work.

1

John Gerzema, Seth Godin, Brian Solis, Charlene Li and Jeremiah Owyang

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Peter Johnston
Director (CEO), Intelligent Prospecting
Posted on Nov. 11, 2011

It seems we have a consensus here.

Dan Zarella is not a scientist. Attempting to pretend that he has has backfired with many of the people here, who see him as a charlatan for pretending he is something he is not.

Yet, if his own stuff is to be believed, thousands of people attend his webinars and read his blog. Large numbers also involve themselves with deceptive programmes like the Eloqua University and Marketing Automation Institute, which also confer status they don't deserve.

Three questions come to mind:

Where in your marketing career do you get above all this stuff and stop being conned?

Do people go with the flow if it helps them to pretend within their company that they are more legitimately educated than they are?

Shouldn't we as an industry be self-regulating and stop these snake-oil salesmen in our midst from ruining the credibility of the whole industry?

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carlos Diaz Ruiz
carlos Diaz Ruiz Replied on Nov. 11, 2011

You pointed out one of the greatest problems with marketing. This is such a big problem that marketing is getting marginalized from Top Management discussions. More and more, CEOs have financial backgrounds instead of Marketing backgrounds. This is, in large part, because Marketing, unfortunately, is obfuscated by trends and guesses. And also gullible marketing managers who buy pretty much anything.

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Peter Johnston
Peter Johnston Replied on Nov. 11, 2011

I agree entirely, Carlos. We should all do something about it, chucking deceptive companies off respected sites such as this, for example.

But it goes to the top of our industry. Deceitful concepts like Revenue Performance Management (which pretends that marketers alone can generate all of a company's revenues and grow the corporation) are being bandied around the boardrooms of top corporations. Naive concepts like this just make us all look foolish.

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Tonia Ries
Modern Media | The Realtime Report
Posted on Nov. 11, 2011

Another good one: Bernardo Huberman has done some terrific work on influence. Here's his paper on "Predicting the Future with Social Media" http://arxiv.org/abs/1003.5699

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Peter Johnston
Director (CEO), Intelligent Prospecting
Posted on Nov. 9, 2011

No-one. This is self aggrandisement.

It pretends that Dan have the peer review of true science. It is covering yourself in the cloak of academia without actually doing the work and submitting to the procedures (peer review etc.) to get there legitimately.

Universities have rigorous processes to get real research checked - Zarella just puts out a blog based on some subjective statistics (people asked what they think is not scientific). He ignores confidence levels and make quite unjustified assumptions based on highly skewed data (for example responders to a survey are not representative of the whole - they respond because they think they have something to say).

It is part of an attempt to hoodwink gullible marketers. It seems that it works!

Other similar examples are the Marketing Automation Institute, Content Marketing Institute and Hubspot University. None of them are legitimate.

In the UK this sort of thing is illegal - you can't call yourself an Institute if you're not.

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Joe Chernov
Joe Chernov Replied on Nov. 11, 2011

Sounds like a scientist to me, Peter:

Michael Wu is the Principal Scientist of Analytics at Lithium. He received his Ph.D. from UC Berkeley’s Biophysics graduate program, where he modeled visual processing within the human brain using math, physics, and machine learning.

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Peter Johnston
Peter Johnston Replied on Nov. 11, 2011

You rather prove my point, Joe. Eloqua uses the word University for something which has none of the rigor of an academic program. It is vendor training. To pretend in this way is deceptive and certainly outside the spirit of the law.

Michael Wu has nothing to do with my point which was about Dan Zarrella.

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Alyson Stone
Manager, Customer Programs & Publications, Desk.com
Posted on Nov. 9, 2011
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I also have found erik qualman of socialnomics to be very concrete and helpful in his writing http://www.socialnomics.net/about-erik-qualman/

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carlos Diaz Ruiz
Researcher, Hanken School of Economics
Posted on Nov. 9, 2011
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With all respect to the person who asked this question, I searched for the reference of Dan Zarella in Harzing's Publish or Perish, and he does not have any peer-reviewed publication. He might claim to be a scientist to sell legitimacy, but if you do not appear in an academic journal, that is just a void claim.

Now, to answer your question, if you want to search for articles related to social media, I recommend browsing ISI through http://www.webofknowledge.com/ (you need institutional access, maybe through your university). Another option is to go though google scholar. Of course, in order to access the journals, you need institutional access, or pay each article.

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Scott Ingram
Enterprise Sales Director, Eloqua
Posted on Nov. 9, 2011
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His emphasis isn't really on social media, though he does a descent amount in the space. Definitely worth taking a look at Brian Massey:

Brian Massey, The Conversion Scientist
brian@conversionscientist.com
www.conversionscientist.com
512.961.6604
@bmassey

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Chris Corney
Consultant, Relationship Marketing, Possible Worldwide
Posted on Nov. 12, 2011

John Lovett wrote an excellent book on social metrics:

http://www.amazon.com/Social-Media-Metrics-Secrets-Lovett/dp/0470936274

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Peter Johnston
Peter Johnston Replied on Nov. 12, 2011

Did I miss something? Ho is this relevant?

John is letting his book stand on his position as "a veteran industry analyst" - no pretensions to academic status he doesn't qualify for.

If the question was "Whose stuff do you recommend" then that would be a good answer. But it isn't.

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Chris Corney
Chris Corney Replied on Nov. 12, 2011

Of course it's relevant, read the question again Peter, "Dan Z uses metrics and research..."

Have you read the book I mentioned? It's far more relevant to this discussion than arguing over the semantics of what constitutes a scientist, evangelist, guru etc

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Alyson Stone
Manager, Customer Programs & Publications, Desk.com
Posted on Nov. 12, 2011
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Peter and Scott, what do you think about these additions to the list?

B. J. Fogg
Jonah Lehrer
Alexandra Samuel
Eve Mailer (ex-Forrester analyst)
Steven Johnson
Beth Kanter

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Nic Windley
Founder & Practitioner, eB2BLeads
Posted on Nov. 18, 2011
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This is slightly off topic, so I've create a new post and would welcome your input on this:

http://www.focus.com/questions/what-is-the-science-of-an-irrational-and-emoti...

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